O.k., that I can understand by comparing the British occupation of our village after we had lost the war in 1945. We would not have dared to attack the British soldiers with whatever we had. It would have been totally futile and we would have been immediately incarcerated or killed. I very much doubt they would have used Israeli methods... like dropping an atom bomb on a fly!!! The Pals have from the beginning been forced to DEFEND themselves. Ever heard of The right of self-defense? So, the Pals have to resist and fight back IF they don't want to be wiped off the map completely!! Not that their piddly fighting is harming any Israelis, but it draws the world's attention to their plight. Yet, it is shocking to notice how the world, especially the big powers, look on and don't stop the insanity. Haha, now you come with self-defense for the Israelis!! All Israel has to do is stop grabbing more and more land and stop their aggressive treatment of their helpless victims. Well, reading it over a few times, you might be right. I'm unable to dispute your technical "facts"! It would take more time and mental power to check and verify your statements than I have. But... from a moral point of view it is shameful of Israel to treat its defenseless prey so inhumanely. They have great intelligence but lack badly in the area of compassion.
RE: About the Holocaust SUBTOPIC: Further Usefulness of Criminal Investigation and Prosecution? ※→ Jazz, et al, BLUF: Yes, fact-checking is always good. (COMMENT) And that is "doable." Remember the treatment was not always as strict as it is today. The treatment (regulation, crime suppression, and law enforcement) gained more emphasis as the Arab Palestinians became more and more disruptive. All the Arab Palestinians have to do is: ◈ Fall back in line with the spirit of Article 43 (public order and safety) ◈ Stop aggravating the hostile environment already created. Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law. 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.◈ Exercise the "Dispute Resolution Processes" or the Table under the "Permanent Status for Negotiations" [Article V(3)]. It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest. (COMMENT) . When the Arab Palestinians, the anti-Israeli activist, the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters) under the mistaken guise of "self-defense," the hostile act becomes a criminal offense. You cannot use "delf-defense" as an excuse to commit criminal offenses against specific crimes. It is not wrong for the Israelis to carry out their responsibilities required by law. One must also remember that the Israelis had control of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip in 1967. That is a year before the Palestine National Charter was adopted (196. That is 7 years before the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference declared the Palestine Liberations Organization (PLO) the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated (1974). That is 45 years before the change on the Status of Palestine in the United Nations [A/RES/67/19 4 Dec 2012] Please take notice of Paragraph 1 the opening statement by the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs (The Legal Council): "Palestine was NOT identified as a State or a Country nor could its authorities be identified as a government." So, without question, Israel never occupied any territory sovereign unto the Palestinians prior to 2012. It is also important to note that prior to 2012, the Israelis had brought the 1949 conflict to a close with: ◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel • ◈ Golan Heights Law • ◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) • ◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • ◈ Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon • The "Green Line" for the Armistice Arrangements set in 1949 was dissolved by agreements ("shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved" Article XII). ◈ S/1264/Corr.1 23 February 1949 ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL 24 February 1949 at Rhodes ◈ S/1302/Rev.1 3 April 1949 ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN JORDAN AND ISRAEL 3 April 1949, at Rhodes (Ω) A significant percentage of the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian and anti-Israeli misinformation (intentionally deceptive) gain its traction from the fact that most outside observers DO NOT fact-check the material they commit to memory because of the time involved and the effort it takes. This is especially true when the misinformation already fits their preconceived notions. You will notice that much of the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian and anti-Israeli misinformation is not supported by documentation - or - made purposely vague so that it is difficult to challenge. . Most Respectfully, R
Re: First of all, there are very, very few people who "deny" that Jews, Communists, common criminals and other real or perceived threats to National Socialist (NS) Germany were placed in work camps where those who died were mostly typhus victims. On the other hand, about 2/3 of the world(1) rejects the grossly exaggerated and fraudulent holocaust narrative about homicidal gas chambers, "6 million Jews killed", deliberate starvation, and a genocidal German agenda. Therefore "holocaust denier" / "holocaust denial" are simply deceptive and deliberately misleading misnomers for people with enough sense to recognize that the fraudulent Holocaust Industry(2), (3) which lied about human skin pocketbooks, human fat soap, shrunken heads and is so corrupt as to cheat holocaust survivors and countless governments is also lying about "6 million Jews killed", deliberate starvation, and a genocidal German agenda etc. My point is that just because the Holocaust Industry is insatiably greedy, dishonest and rotten to the core, that doesn't mean that rational people who reject holocaustian fables dislike Jews or think ill of them. Now, I hope that you'll finally explain how "millions" could have died in German run work camps while there are so few human remains that serve as evidence and both the Red Cross and East German government report that fewer than 300,000 died in all the work camps primarily from disease. (1) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS” https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/ EXCERPT "Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts. Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth. Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."CONTINUED (2) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE" http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED (3)"HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION" http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298 EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED
Appeal to majority and Argumentum ad Populum, are common misconceptions. Something isn't automatically true if many idiots do believe it. The Nazis minimized human remains but ignored any other evidence of their reign of terror. They also barely had time to cover up all of their crimes. Nazi bastards failed essentially in three ways. - fooling people to be the good guys - fooling people that racism is good - fooling people that Jews are enemies to whole mankind.
Re: What "other evidence"? (1), (2), (3) Both the Red Cross and the East German government calculated that fewer than 300,000 people died(4) in Germany's WW 2 work camps and most of them died of disease or natural causes yet the Holocaust Industry has brainwashed many in the Western world into believing that millions were killed via gas chambers and other absurd means. Where are the remains of millions of people if no one has been able to locate any more than a few thousand? Even a thorough cremation leaves bones and teeth but according to holocaustian lore most were burned in pits which would leave even more remains that would be easy to find if they existed. Where are the remains (bones & teeth) of millions of people? In a fair trial, one must be able to show a body or its remains before one can be convicted of murder but thousands of German POWs were executed for mass murder without anyone finding any more than a few thousand remains of individuals who died of disease, not murder. How can one be guilty of mass murder when there is no evidence of a genocidal German agenda or millions of bodies as claimed by proven liars? Yes, spies, anarchists, and other real or perceived threats to NS Germany were executed but there were never "lines to the gas chamber" or other "systematic and industrialized mass murders". How can you so strongly believe something when there is no forensic evidence to support your beliefs? (1) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust” https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363 EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.” CONTINUED (2) “Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves” https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php EXCERPT “A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there.” CONTINUED (3) “Air Photo Evidence” http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndaerial.html EXCERPT The Bottom Line "To this day there is no air photo evidence to support the alleged mass murder of the Jews at any location in Europe occupied by the Germans during World War Two. Further, air photo analysis refutes the claim that the 'Nazis' had intended, at whatever time, to keep events in the alleged extermination camps secret. In many cases the air photos provide clear proof that some of the events attested to by witnesses, such as the destruction of the Hungarian Jews or the mass executions at Babi Yar, did not in fact take place. We may hope that the release of Soviet air photos dating from the time the camps were in operation will shed further light on these issues. The fact that these photos have not been published to date may already speak for itself. That the photos in western hands were altered in order to incriminate Germany, and were first published by the CIA, is also very significant indeed." CONTINUED (4) "INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS (IRC) DOCUMENT CONFIRMS 271 THOUSAND NOT 6 MILLION DIED IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS" https://archive.org/details/auschwitz_201905 EXCERPTS: "OFFICIAL INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS RECORDS RELEASED Sealed and guarded since the end of WWII at Arolsen, Germany, the Official IRC records reveal the actual Concentration Camp total death toll was 271,301 For years, people around the world – “the West” in particular – have been told that “six million Jews were systematically murdered by Germans in ‘Concentration Camps’ during World War 2.” Thousands of honest people disputing this claim have been viciously smeared as a hateful anti-Semite. Several countries around the world have jailed and heavily fined people for disputing the claim that “6 Million” Jews were killed. Red Cross and East German government figures put the total deaths at every camp as 272.000, and 282,000 respectively which includes homosexuals, communists, gypsies, murderers, paedophiles etc. The 6 Million figure is a Kabbalist number, a magickal figure which featured in news papers in the early 1900’s." CONTINUED
Transport lists of the Reichsbahn and other written evidence, such as the Wannsee papers. There were also thousands of contemporary witnesses, victims and perpetrators alike. No one of sane mind will today deny the Holocaust unless he's a Hitler fanboy himself.
If transport lists were evidence of genocide then everyone who was transported anywhere in the world would be dead. About 52 years ago, I was on a transport list to Ft. Benning for US Military Basic Training and I can assure you that I'm very much alive so transport lists prove nothing except that people were transported. The Wannsee Conference made absolutely no mention of a genocidal agenda in anyway, shape or form(1). There are just as many contemporary witnesses, victims and perpetrators who tell the truth in that there was no genocidal agenda, homicidal gas chambers and other holocaustian lies (2) but their stories are censored and repressed by the fraudulent Holocaust Industry & its complicit MSM. Only the most bigoted and gullible of rubes actually believes that the Germans had the means, motive and opportunity to kill about 11 million people (6 million Jews and 5 million "others") and make their bodies completely disappear into thin air. Maybe they used their "vaporizer" that was mentioned in the faux Nuremberg "trials" by prosecutor Robert Jackson to murder countless German POWs. (3) Briefly put, you have absolutely no evidence to support the myths you've chosen to believe. (1) "The Wannsee Conference: Another Lie Crushed" http://barnesreview.org/the-wannsee-conference-another-lie-crushed/ EXCERPT "The actual minutes of the Wannsee Conference can be read in their entirety—in the original German here, In reality, the Wannsee meeting and its minutes do not contain a master plan to kill Jews; – Nowhere in the meeting’s minutes is genocide discussed, planned, proposed, or even suggested; – The Wannsee meeting never discussed gas chambers, shootings, or any of the fantasies propagated by the exterminationists; – The Wannsee Minutes reported that there were only 4.5 million Jews under German control (yet 4.3 million Jewish compensation claims have been lodged against the postwar German government); – The Wannsee meeting was a planning meeting on how Europe’s Jews should be deported, via transit camps, to the East; with able-bodied Jews being forced to build roads and other labor intensive tasks in those regions; – The Wannsee Conference also made allowance for specific exceptions to Jewish evacuation, such as Jewish German World War I veterans; ALL Jews over the age of 65; and ALL Jews working in industries vital to the German war effort, to be released from the threat of evacuation and be allowed to stay in Germany." CONTINUED (2) "Auschwitz Was NOT a 'Death Camp' - Holocaust Survivor Testimony" https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWasNotAdeathCamp-HolocaustSurvivorTestimony EXCERPT "Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps." CONTINUED (3) "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts" http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml EXCERPT "At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales."CONTINUED
To make it short, brief and sweet: Source: According to Americans for Peace Now's "Facts on the Ground" Map Project, there are 163 official Israeli settlements and 98 informal outposts on Palestinian land, including 24 neighborhoods in East Jerusalem de facto annexed to Israel (a total of 261 settlements). International Law International humanitarian law prohibits [an] occupying power [from transferring] citizens from its own territory to the occupied territory (Fourth Geneva Convention, article 49). The Hague Regulations prohibit the occupying power [from undertaking] permanent changes in the occupied area, unless these are due to military needs in the narrow sense of the term, or unless they are undertaken for the benefit of the local population. The establishment of the settlements leads to the violation of the rights of the Palestinians as enshrined in international human rights law. Among other violations, the settlements infringe on the rights to self-determination, equality, property, an adequate standard of living, and freedom of movement. Conclusion... Particularly evident is Israel’s manipulative use of legal tools in order to give the settlement enterprise an impression of legality. In so doing, Israel trampled on numerous restrictions and prohibitions established in the international conventions to which it is party, and which were intended to limit infringement of human rights and to protect populations under occupation. Please, further educate yourself by reading here: https://ifamericansknew.org/stat/settlements.html ------ A good book to read would be this one:
RE: About the Holocaust SUBTOPIC: Occupying power prohibited from transferring its own citizens into occupied territory. ※→ Jazz, et al, I know suspect that you have heard this a number of times by a number of sources. But it is flawed when attempting to use Article 49, Fourht Geneva Convention (GCIV). (COMMENT) Nothing, under the Special Provisions, prohibits the voluntary establishment of settlements by Israeli Citizens in Area "C." I see no record of the Arab Palestinians demonstrating any attempt to (in good faith) exercise any provision of the Permanent Status of Negotiations relative to the "settlements issues" for more than seven years. I hear a lot of demands, but no attempt at negotiations. Most Respectfully, R
Don't pretend to be stupid! Deportations of Jews and other unwanted persons of the Nazi regime to known extermination sites are evidential traces of the Holocaust. Most of those poor guys were never seen again which implies, in connection with other traces, that they were killed and burned and/or buried into mass graves. Holocaust denial makes no sense and helps nobody today. Nazism and anti-Semitism are BS ideologies. May fate save us all from this!
You sound like you're getting frustrated that you can't show where anything I have written is false I, too would be frustrated if I couldn't explain and support myths that had relentlessly been poured into my head by the Holocaust Industry on a friendly debate forum. What is frustrating for me is the fact that you cannot or will not produce any evidence to support the fraudulent holocaust narrative and you act as if you had not even read my previous Comments in which I already debunked what you have just now written: Meanwhile, I just posted: (1) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust” https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363 EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.” CONTINUED (2) “Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves” https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php EXCERPT “A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there.” CONTINUED (3) “Air Photo Evidence” http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndaerial.html EXCERPT The Bottom Line "To this day there is no air photo evidence to support the alleged mass murder of the Jews at any location in Europe occupied by the Germans during World War Two. Further, air photo analysis refutes the claim that the 'Nazis' had intended, at whatever time, to keep events in the alleged extermination camps secret. In many cases the air photos provide clear proof that some of the events attested to by witnesses, such as the destruction of the Hungarian Jews or the mass executions at Babi Yar, did not in fact take place. We may hope that the release of Soviet air photos dating from the time the camps were in operation will shed further light on these issues. The fact that these photos have not been published to date may already speak for itself. That the photos in western hands were altered in order to incriminate Germany, and were first published by the CIA, is also very significant indeed." CONTINUED So, in fact, you are entirely unable to show where there are "evidential traces of the Holocaust" at Treblinka or any of the other German run work camps where "millions" of people are falsely claimed to have been killed. All you have as "evidence" are a few horror stories told by fame and money hungry professional liars: “Dozens & Dozens of the Most Outrageous Tales of the Holocaust” http://wolfgangrudolf.blogspot.com/2016/12/dozens-dozens-of-most-outrageous-tales.html EXCERPTS: • Moshe Peer's astounding Holy Shoah tale - Gassed six times by the Nazis and survived!! - Claims people were murdered in gas chambers at Bergen-Belsen • William Lowenberg's astounding Holocaust tale - Had a magic thirst-quenching pebble, did not drink water, survived on his saliva for 3 years • Yankel Wiernik's Holotale - Babies torn in half, woman leaps 10 ft barbed-wire fence, guards nail inmates' ears to walls, jews roasted on giant outdoor hibachis • Testimony from the Eichmann Trial by Leon Wells - Dug up and burned bodies, used bone-grinding machine, ate lunch on top of corpses • Irene Zisblatt's incredible Holocaust tale- Ate and retrieved diamonds from feces, had 2 post-sterilization children, weighed 40 lbs when liberated • Rivka Yosselevska's absurd Holocaust fable - Escaped biting jew corpses, witnessed geysers of blood” CONTINUED Meanwhile, holocaust survivors who tell the truth are censored and persecuted by the money hungry Holocaust Industry: "Auschwitz Was NOT a 'Death Camp' - Holocaust Survivor Testimony" https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWasNotAdeathCamp-HolocaustSurvivorTestimony EXCERPT "Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps." CONTINUED So, where is the hard evidence that "millions" died in "death camps when there are no graves containing any more than 300,000 people who died primarily by disease? "INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS (IRC) DOCUMENT CONFIRMS 271 THOUSAND NOT 6 MILLION DIED IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS" https://archive.org/details/auschwitz_201905 EXCERPTS: "OFFICIAL INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS RECORDS RELEASED Sealed and guarded since the end of WWII at Arolsen, Germany, the Official IRC records reveal the actual Concentration Camp total death toll was 271,301 For years, people around the world – “the West” in particular – have been told that “six million Jews were systematically murdered by Germans in ‘Concentration Camps’ during World War 2.” Thousands of honest people disputing this claim have been viciously smeared as a hateful anti-Semite. Several countries around the world have jailed and heavily fined people for disputing the claim that “6 Million” Jews were killed. Red Cross and East German government figures put the total deaths at every camp as 272.000, and 282,000 respectively which includes homosexuals, communists, gypsies, murderers, paedophiles etc. The 6 Million figure is a Kabbalist number, a magickal figure which featured in news papers in the early 1900’s." CONTINUED
Blindly believing a fictional narrative that you can't even defend makes even less sense and only perpetuates the shame felt by today's Germans while it allows the Holocaust Industry to continue to extort even more money from innocent Germans for generations to come. (1) If it's not about the money, why, then, is no amount of money enough for the fraudulent Holocaust Industry (2), (3) Re: An honest and objective view of WW 2 and the holocaust has nothing to do with pro Nazi or anti Semitic sentiment. It is simply putting aside all the residual Allied atrocity propaganda and seeing the facts for what they are. There was simply no genocidal German agenda, about 6 million Jews were not murdered in homicidal gas chambers or other means and, unlike war criminals Stalin, Eisenhower and Churchill, there was no written order from Hitler for the destruction of anyone. (4) Those are just some of the facts that you've evaded and been completely unable to refute throughout this entire thread. (1) "Holocaust Survivors' Children Sue Germany for Therapy Fees" https://www.haaretz.com/1.4952800 EXCERPT "Suit, filed in Tel Aviv, seeks funds to pay for biweekly therapy sessions for up to 20,000 affected by the scars of their parents. The lawsuit marks the very first time that the German government will be asked to take responsibility and to care for those of the second generation in Israel and indeed, worldwide, attorney Gideon Fisher said before filing the suit at the Tel Aviv District Court."CONTINUED (2) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE" http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED (3)"HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION" http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298 EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED (4) “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.” - Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190
Hello, dear Grau; you are to be commanded for tirelessly and patiently responding to stubborn adherence by some indoctrinated individuals to the holocaust saga. Did you know or have at least already heard about Pat Buchanan's supported website about holocaust discussions? Here is the link: Why is Pat Buchanan's Website Playing Host to Holocaust Deniers? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-is-pat-buchanans-webs_b_201959 And here are some excerpts: • "Most historians believe it was LOGISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GAS 6 MILLION JEWS AND REDUCE THEIR BODIES TO ASHES." • "I would like to see some rebuttal from Holocaust believers. Let's see some pictures of those gas chambers or those big cremation ovens. I'll tell you right now - THEY DON'T EXIST. The same blinded people that believe that the Germans intentionally killed Jews - also believe the myth of the Anne Frank Diary." • "As anyone reads the various articles that have been posted here, they will have to realize that there simply were not gas chambers or mass crematoriums at any of the German internment camps." • "Kosher and Halal ritual slaughter, belong in the middle east sands, where both barbaric practices were begun, after an instruction to the Hebrews and Islamics by their god voices, probably the same one. It's a pity they cannot cut each others throats." • "We have known for some time that the Auschwitz myth is of an exclusively Jewish origin." • "The Jewish Race has moved into Christian societies over most of Europe over the last millennium. They tend to eventually irritate their hosts and are then told to leave. Hitler used the hatred of the Jew as a rallying call for his movement. Rightly or wrongly - the Jew was blamed for a lot of the problems that Germany suffered. The Jews were given years of warnings that they were unwelcome in Germany. A lot of Jews fled Germany in the late 1930s. The United States was not very anxious to accept very many. This was when White Christians still had a little control of our Nation." It is an older article but new to me. Perhaps I could add a little sunshine to this thread?
Good thing NOBODY claims that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated. Nice strawman, Jazz. Easily debunked.
actually, there was a VERY large gas chamber built at Auschwitz II. It says so on the camp blueprints. and there were I believe at least 49 crematory ovens at Auschwitz II.
SAME FALSEHOODS, DIFFERENT DAY A few months ago, you made the same claim about a very large gas chamber at Auschwitz and I debunked it with this same source. (1) Why do you need to repeat things you know to be false? The only "gas chambers" in the German run work camps were for defumigation of old blankets, clothes etc. as there were no homicidal gas chambers in any of the German run camps. The homicidal gas chamber myth was simply a product of Allied propagandists(2) that some people believe to this day. The numerous crematory ovens (muffles) were built to save lives and had no nefarious purpose since rampant typhus was the primary killer. Even Himmler recognized the propaganda value of so many ovens that were needed to save lives, not kill people.(3) (1) "Auschwitz Expert: Blueprints Found in Berlin Not of Death Camp" https://www.haaretz.com/1.5056721 EXCERPT "Prof. Robert Jan van Pelt, a internationally acknowledged expert on the planning and construction of Auschwitz, Van Pelt, an architectural historian, said that copies of the plans of the stages of the camp's construction were also in the archive of the Polish National Museum at Auschwitz and in an archive in Moscow. Van Pelt said he also doubted the authenticity of the signature of the SS chief, Heinrich Himmler, since such a high-ranking officer would not have signed such plans, and none of the copies he had ever seen bore such a signature. Van Pelt also said the words "gas chamber" on one of the drawings meant a room in which disinfection of clothing was done by means of gas, and that the sketch is not of an extermination camp established in 1942, but rather of earlier plans for a huge concentration camp in which a force of 130,000 slave laborers was intended to work. Van Pelt suggested the plans might be fakes, motivated by the lucrative market in Nazi memorabilia and documents."CONTINUED (2) “Auschwitz: Myths and Facts” http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15] CONTINUED 15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606. (3) "In order to put a stop to the epidemics, we were forced to burn the bodies of incalculable numbers of people who had been destroyed by disease. We were therefore forced to build crematoria, and on this account they are knotting a noose for us." Heinrich Himmler 21 April 1945 Gerald Reitlinger, The Final Solution, 2nd ed., Vallentine, Mitchell, London, 1968, p. 521. AlsoMoment (Jewish monthly published in Boston), vol. 11, no. 1, Dec. 1985, p. 51.
Explanation: My answer to RoccoR was deleted by the moderators for being "off topic". I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking. Will take another run at it later. Jazz
I believe we have made a breakthrough. It is now clear even to the Holocaust deniers that so many Jews were dying at the concentration camps, that the number could only be characterized as "incalculable". And this was according to Heinrich Himmler himself. It's wonderful that we can now all agree that millions of Jews were dying in the concentration camps. Holocaust deniers say they died of typhus, while everybody else says they died of starvation torture exhaustion gassing or shooting. So many Jews were dying in the concentration camps that a total of 54 crematory ovens had to be installed at Auschwitz II, which would give them a crematoria capacity of around 700,000 bodies a year. And that was just at Auschwitz. 54 ovens x 3 bodies each x 12 shifts per day. The fact that so many crematoria were built shows at the level of war crime the Nazis had committed. Why were so many innocent people dying under their care? Why would they need the capacity to cremate 700000 bodies a year? Were they not providing adequate food, shelter and medical Care? That alone is a terrible war crime considering almost all of these prisoners were unconvicted of any crimes. Their only crime is that they were Jews. But I guess some people here consider being Jewish to be a crime itself, as some here believe that "Judaism=Communism", and the Jewish people collectively had committed a terrible crime against Germany and had to be punished.
Himmler speech at Posen, about exterminating the Jews: "I want to also mention a very difficult subject . . . before you, with complete candor. It should be discussed amongst us, yet nevertheless, we will never speak about it in public. Just as we did not hesitate on June 30 to carry out our duty as ordered, and stand comrades who had failed against the wall and shoot them—about which we have never spoken, and never will speak. That was, thank God, a kind of tact natural to us, a foregone conclusion of that tact, that we have never conversed about it amongst ourselves, never spoken about it, everyone . . . shuddered, and everyone was clear that the next time, he would do the same thing again, if it were commanded and necessary. I am talking about the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It is one of those things that is easily said. [quickly] “The Jewish people is being exterminated". https://www.facinghistory.org/holocaust-human-behavior/himmler-speech-posen-1943
Adolf Eichmann, who was in charge of the transport of Jews to Poland, also admitted to the millions killed by the Nazis and their allies. He admitted to this years before the Israelis captured him in Argentina.
It's very very sad that the moderators of this respected Forum do not close & lock this thread. It is a shame to give a stage to Holocaust deniers who are trying to make a connection between the worst disaster in human history and the Palestinian problem caused by the Arabs themselves.
"INCALCULABLE?" As much as I would like to have a breakthrough, it can only occur when you acknowledge the laws of physics and salient realities relating to WW 2 and the holocaust But first there must be continuity if we are to have a substantive discussion. For example, you seem too have ignored my earlier question concerning a "very large gas chamber" in my previous Post # 2616: <COMMENTS EDITED> Did you forget that we had already discussed this very same detail regarding a fictional, homicidal gas chamber and I already debunked your claim about a "very large gas chamber" using the very same Jewish source? Please respond and acknowledge that there were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz or any other of the German run work camps. They, like the homicidal steam and electrocution chambers (1) were simply a product of Allied propaganda. You do realize that the Allies, too, used propaganda? America's propaganda ministry was the OWI (Office of War Information) Now, regarding your inflated interpretation of the word "incalculable" and equally exaggerated calculations of bodies cremated per day, they are in fact easily calculated based on the total amount of coke/coal delivered to Auschwitz that was noted in Auschwitz's ledgers. According to these ledgers that were captured by the Soviets, there was only enough coke/coal delivered to Auschwitz to cremate a total of about 70,000 bodies. This more realistic figure is consistent with the figures calculated by both the Red Cross and the East German government for the total number of deaths in all the German work camps which is well under 300,000 (2) so the claim that "millions of Jews" died in the German work camps is also false. Moving along, the Soviets also captured the Auschwitz Death Ledger but withheld it until 1989. It, too, puts the number of people who died of all causes at Auschwitz at about 69,000 which is consistent with the number of bodies that could be cremated with the amount of coal/coke delivered to Auschwitz. (3) The exact number of inmates who died of all causes was 68,864 and more Catholics died than Jews. Re: First of all, only a tiny number of people deny that the holocaust happened but the vast majority of people around the world believe that the death toll etc has been grossly exaggerated.(4) Even mainstream holocaustian, Arno Mayer, admits that more inmates died of typhus than execution and post war Allied doctors determined that stories of deliberate starvation were entirely unfounded(5) so your claim that: "...everybody else says they died of starvation torture exhaustion gassing or shooting." is also blatantly false. Finally, Germany, like every country, had its share of murderers, rapists, pedophiles, anarchists, thieves and spies that were inmates in its work camp system so your contention that only innocent Jews were incarcerated is also clearly false. It is also noteworthy that Jews were not only high ranking members of the Nazi Party(6) but about 150,000 Jews voluntarily served in Hitler's military with some Jews rising to the highest ranks and receiving Germany's highest military honors with Hitler's full knowledge and approval. (7) So, if there is to be any sort of breakthrough, it must be based on the facts and the reality that no nationality, religious or ethnic group is intrinsically good or evil. (1) "Auschwitz Electrical Conveyor belt of Death" https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2018/01/26/auschwitz-electrical-conveyor-belt-of-death/ EXCERPT "It’s a little known fact that running alongside the scientifically implausible gas chambers at Auschwitz ran the electrified conveyor belts of death. These industrialised slaughter belts, we can assume took the passive cargo directly from the “cattle cars” and electrocuted the hapless victims without struggle then disposed of the evidence in Nazi furnaces. One can only guess at the “special devices” for killing children. Somehow visions of Willy Wonka’s Chocolate/extermination factory spring to mind."CONTINUED (2) "INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS (IRC) DOCUMENT CONFIRMS 271 THOUSAND NOT 6 MILLION DIED IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS" https://archive.org/details/auschwitz_201905 EXCERPTS: "OFFICIAL INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS RECORDS RELEASED Sealed and guarded since the end of WWII at Arolsen, Germany, the Official IRC records reveal the actual Concentration Camp total death toll was 271,301 For years, people around the world – “the West” in particular – have been told that “six million Jews were systematically murdered by Germans in ‘Concentration Camps’ during World War 2.” Thousands of honest people disputing this claim have been viciously smeared as a hateful anti-Semite. Several countries around the world have jailed and heavily fined people for disputing the claim that “6 Million” Jews were killed. Red Cross and East German government figures put the total deaths at every camp as 272.000, and 282,000 respectively which includes homosexuals, communists, gypsies, murderers, paedophiles etc. The 6 Million figure is a Kabbalist number, a magickal figure which featured in news papers in the early 1900’s." CONTINUED (3) Did German Homicidal Gas Chambers Exist? http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/12/1/7200 EXCERPT “Startling evidence was also revealed in 1989 when the Soviets released some of the Auschwitz death-registry volumes that fell into Soviet hands in January 1945 when the Red Army captured Auschwitz. The death certificates contained in these volumes were official German documents issued by Auschwitz camp doctors upon the death of an inmate. Each death certificate includes the deceased person’s full name, profession and religion, date and place of birth, pre-Auschwitz residence, parents’ names, time of death, cause of death, and a camp physician’s signature. The death-registry volumes recorded the deaths of approximately 69,000 Auschwitz inmates, of whom approximately 30,000 were Jewish. Most of the deaths were caused by disease, although some death certificates recorded executions by shooting or hanging. None of the death certificates recorded death by gassing." CONTINUED (4) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS” https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/ EXCERPT “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts. Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth. Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust." - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated. - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED (5) “Allied Forensic Autopsies Confirm Disease, Not Gas” https://20thcenturytruth.wordpress.com/allied-forensic-autopsies-confirm-disease-not-gas/ EXCERPT “Dr. Russell Barton further testified that on entering the camp he had credited stories of deliberate starvation but decided such stories were untrue after inspecting the well equipped kitchens and the meticulously maintained ledgers, dating back to 1942, of food cooked and dispensed each day. Despite noisily publicised claims and widespread popular notions to the contrary, no researcher has ever been able to document a German policy of extermination through starvation in the German camps.” CONTINUED (6) “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED (7) “Hitler’s Jewish Army” http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/...-hitlers-army/ EXCERPT “Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval. In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross. Jews also served in the Nazi police and security forces as ghetto police(Ordnungdienst)(*)and concentration camp guards(*)(kapos). So what happens to the claim that Hitler sought to exterminate all Jews, when he allowed some of them to join in his struggle against Bolshevism and International finance capitalism? “If the Jews were permitted to serve in Hitler’s armed forces then there could not have been a Holocaust.”CONTINUED
Neither I nor anyone else here denies that the holocaust happened or that it was one of many tragedies to occur in modern history. What I resent is its crass exploitation and grotesque exaggeration as a means to slander the German people and extort untold $ Billions from governments around the world by the fraudulent Holocaust Industry (1), (2). Finally, the truth welcomes honest examination and open debate while a lie can only survive under the protection of draconian censorship laws. (1)"17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE" http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED (2)"HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION" http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298 EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED
I am frustrated that there are still HC deniers today. Almost 80 years after the Nazi regime. That makes no sense. They must be mentally ill.
