Christian Atheism

Oh, I can definitely agree there. My point is that, at least according to one of the Genesis narratives, it seems like God discovers or recognizes these elements as a pre-existing force rather than creating either of them.

 

I disagree and offer an old O.P.

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God created evil for his pleasure!

Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

Rev 4;11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Some people have what has been termed, the problem of evil. Many cannot fathom why, if god is good, he would create evil. Yet the scriptures are clear that god created evil for his pleasure.

It may be due to my criminal mind and delinquent attitude, but I think I know why. I wondered if you ands others had also dithered out a reasonable answer to show why sin and evil are required for god’s plan and our mental and moral development.

This fact is likely why the ancient Christians determined that sin was necessary for our development. They sing that Adam furthered god’s plan by his sin.

To them, even as Christianity and I clash, and the intelligent position, is that to not sin or do evil, is to derail god’s plan.

In this, issue, I happen to agree with the scriptures and Christians who say the sin and evil is good and necessary to god’s plan.

Do you?

Regards
DL

 

In reality, we are who decide on what is good and evil.

We must do evil to losers when we compete, but I would not say that that evil pre-exists, but would say that the conditions, our DNA that demand we compete, might be said to pre exist from ancient days.

Regards
DL

 

Damn I wanted to 'like' this post, sooo bad, until that last sentence. There are 23,145 verses in the Old Testament and 7,957 verses in the New Testament This gives a total of 31,102 verses in the Holy Bible, all of which were cherry picked and edited by committees from a series of totally disparate original sources. , and translated into 2 different languages and then a final third over centuries of time that are the 'foundation' of Christianity. Its time to hold Kokomomojo accountable for what he chooses to quote, what he chooses to highlight, how he decides to interpret those verses and what he chooses to do with that 'stuff' He brings those dead sentences and words to life, gives some of them oxygen, and purpose to fit his agenda when they would otherwise lie as dormant and forgotten as this one.

"Genesis 5:6
And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos"

But its Kokomomojo who has an agenda, who has a purpose when he decides to quote different verses in Genesis instead like 19:1-11, and then he decides to 'interpret' it for us consistent with that potentially homophobic agenda. You too have an agenda, and you too cherry-pick among those 31,000 verses and you too 'interpret' consistent with that agenda.

Its always about living people and their choices, and never about those verses. Those living people who reincarnate otherwise dead lines, sitting in dead languages, to achieve something now are accountable now.

 

Sounds beautiful, until you open a history book. Slavery survived in the very Christian Europe in the guise of serfdom. It was abolished in the 14th century in western Europe, but flourished in the Austrian-Hungarian empire until the 18th century, and until a century later in eastern Europe.

I wonder how did priests manage to preach that Christian love to serfs with a straight face.

The Roma had been slaves in parts of what is Romania today for more than five centuries. The first known mention of Roma slavery is a document that testifies to a gift to a monastery (full of those love-filled Christians) in the form of 40 Roma families.

Roma slavery was abolished in Romania in the 19th century.

 

Oh, so we cant go against our nature except for when its in our nature to do so...lol

How bout you come up with some part of our nature that no one has able to change?

 

The Jesus crucifixion is based on the old animal sacrifice & scapegoat rituals. It is also an illustration of the 8th Commandment = Exodus 34:25 (NLT)
“You must not offer the blood of my sacrificial offerings together with any baked goods containing yeast. And none of the meat of the Passover sacrifice may be kept over until the next morning.“

 

No it's not. There were non-Jewish Christian sects - Marcionites who rejected the Old Testament, and Gnostics who thought YHWH was evil and Jesus was a god who took the form of a man as a disguise, The roots of the myth are certainly not Judaic. Jesus seems to be a hybrid between an agrarian god (ritual eating of bread and ritual drinking of wine considered the body and blood of Jesus, for instance) and a solar god.

The story of Jesus and the thief resembles the Greek ritual pharmakos more than Jewish rituals on Yom Kippur (the day of atonement - scapegoating was not done on Passover). But the scapegoat goat was not sacrificed, it was driven off a cliff. Another goat was sacrificed to God. However Jesus had been sacrificed by God, not to God.

 

Do you mean like Joel Osteen gnosticism?

 

Awfully specific about yeast there lol. One of the priests who actually ate this stuff must of had a dietary preference or restriction. If written for the first time today I bet it would say something like "None of the sacrificial offer shall contain gluten and it all must be certified organic".

 

I'm not too familiar with him. How is he gnostic?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

He is a motivational speaker, not a theologian. Gnosticism teaches personal spiritual knowledge over solid doctrine.

 

Spiritual growth. Is that when Jesus needed more wine so turned some water into wine and spirits?

 

From what I read about him in the ol' Book of Knowledge, he preaches prosperity gospel.

Joel Osteen - Wikipedia

 

Sad but true, nevertheless the serfs were keenly aware of the hypocrisy, particularly of the monks who were so widely despised and reviled as "parasites", and that their feudal/manorial overlords and their "Christianity" were "inevitably second rate" (to use Pasternak's words).

You can see this recognition expressed in the Twelve Articles of the Swabian Peasants (1525) that were issued during the German Peasants' War:

The Third Article. – It has been the custom hitherto for men to hold us as their own property, which is pitiable enough, considering that Christ has delivered and redeemed us all, without exception, by the shedding of His precious blood, the lowly as well as the great. Accordingly, it is consistent with Scripture that we should be free and wish to be so. Not that we would wish to be absolutely free and under no authority. God does not teach us that we should lead a disorderly life in the lusts of the flesh, but that we should love the Lord our God and our neighbour. We would gladly observe all this as God has commanded us in the celebration of the communion. He has not commanded us not to obey the authorities, but rather that we should be humble, not only towards those in authority, but towards every one. We are thus ready to yield obedience according to God’s law to our elected and regular authorities in all proper things becoming to a Christian. We, therefore, take it for granted that you will release us from serfdom as true Christians, unless it should be shown us from the Gospel that we are serfs.

 

Not surprising. I haven't heard him in a long time.

 

I always confuse him for the actor who played the kid in Sixth Sense.

That's Haley Joel Osment btw, just in case anybody else also confuses them. And I would like to publicly apologize to Mr. Osment.

 

Your first is correct, and it is funny.

An act that would go against your human nature, that you might do, would be like flying.

Your DNA programming is also, in theory, unable to change itself.

You and I do not even have an unimpeded free will to think as we wish, in part, because DNA controls our chemistry and moods.

Your sexuality is also unchangeable from outside.

That is why homophobia is so wrong.

Regards
DL

 

Whatever the story, given that Jesus was never anointed Christ nor was he an angel, as the prophesy demands, is he even a worthy candidate, given some of the immoral tenets he is shown to favor.

Is this the original myth you are reading. There are a few.

The Messiah Before Jesus? | National Geographic - YouTube

Regards
DL

 

Yes. It boggles my mind how people say that racism and homophobia don't exist when there is mounds and mounds and more mounds of evidence, but will swear on a stack of bibles that his BS is factual with NO evidence.

That's all kinds of dysfunctional.

 

One thought about the hybrid idea -- the sun is kind of the provider of bread and wine, right? It brings warmth and growth when it rises higher into the sky in the spring, and these things turn to cold and death when the sun descends again in the fall. So, in a way, there need not even be a hybrid. A solar god is also the bringer of light, truth, warmth, food and drink, and all life. This also helps explain the whole crucifixion motif in Christianity. It can be seen as an allegory for the winter solstice, when the sun "dies" and, like Jonah in the belly of the whale or fish (Cetus), remains "dead" for three days (as the sun remains at its nadir for three days) before being resurrected or reborn. Likewise, the sun's resurrection is religiously made the means by which mortal man can be resurrected, defeating death. This is all pretty much the central idea of Christianity, and it's all reflective of what the sun appears to do every year.

 

Except we were talking about druggees spending most of their life in prison and the rest of it couch surfing being a waste and a disappintment ...that you blame on God for having made that their nature. It wasn't their lack of an ability to fly or will themselves to change gender that caused them to be addicted to drugs, commit crime or lay around on the couch, it was their choice to not do otherwise that caused them to fail. Or, in your words, it was the parts of their nature that are in their nature to be able to change that caused them to fail. God didn't make them choose to fail... unless you believe we're all just robots obeying a programmer... but in that case it wouldn't matter what happens to us, because we would belong to the programmer.

 

Even though solar gods may seem to us more worthy of worship, the ancients had other ideas. The most widespread and influential cult of the time, the Eleusinian Mysteries of the Greek and Roman antiquity, had been at the center of the religious and spiritual life of two empires for 2000 years. The mysteries celebrated two agrarian goddesses - Demeter and Persephone.

Life-death cycles are characteristic of agrarian gods, so it stands to reason that they hold the secret to escaping the world of the dead.

 

Judaism knows two Messiahs - Messiah son of Joseph, who will wage war, die, and be resurrected, and Messiah son of David, who will do the resurrection and usher in the perfect world. The document might be a version of the myth.

 

I do not believe in a supernatural god.

As to the choices we make in life, those are mostly controlled by those we interact with, just as their choices are by our responses.

Hitler would not have been evil or as genocidal as god, if those he interacted with would have exchanged ideas in a different way.

We are not created to default to evil. We are created to default to good and if anyone is evil, we collectively mold them into it.

Regards
DL