Ahmaud Arbery case: Jury finds McMichaels, Bryan guilty on felony murder charges

My opinion is it became a citizens arrest after the lawyers got involved.

 

If you call putting all three of them in prison for 25+ years justice then you can be sure the next time a situation like this happens they will not be open and upfront with the police.

Those three waited for police, told authorities exactly what happened, pretty much told the truth, and provided the video evidence showing what happened.

Would they now be in prison, or any much worse off, if they had not submitted themselves to authorities and told the truth about what happened?

So next time if something like this happens, the three will just drive off and likely never be heard from again, or maybe will even try to hide the body. What more would they have to lose from doing that?
These three did not enter that situation with the intent to murder.

 

Then they should have called 9-1-1 since they had ZERO knowledge of any crime taking place at that time.

Stopping a person for jogging is a civil rights violation according to the Supreme Court. It requires probable cause.

Even for a Terry search, it requires reasonable articulated suspicion. Jogging down the street could never rise to the level of reasonable articulated suspicion.

How many Black men were jogging down roads in that area at that time?

And so what if police didn't stop him?

There is no evidence that a crime was ever committed by Arbery.

I could give you a definitive answer if I could see the video.

Yeah, that's right, we were trained in accordance with Supreme Court guidelines.

The Supreme Court has said that if I draw my Tonfa/baton and I hold it in such a way that the Tonfa is in my right hand and my right arm is across my chest so that my hand is under my left armpit or my left upper arm is resting on my right hand, and note the Tonfa is pointing a way from you, that is non-threatening/non-intimidating.

Also, I have my Tonfa in my right hand but it is flipped back so that it rests under my right arm-pit, that is non-threatening/non-intimidating.

That works for baseball/softball bats, too. You probably seen baseball players on deck where the bat is under their right armpit and their right hand is on the handle.

And, hand-guns. For a rifle, if you're cradling the rifle in your arms, that is non-threatening/non-intimidating.

I was around Iraqi EPWs and also German demonstrators at some of the missile bases and the barrel would be pointed down at a 45° angle with my left arm over the top and holding either the pistol grip or the stock and then my right arm draped over or resting on the stock or just over the bolt-housing.

So long as your hand is not on the trigger housing or the pistol grip, you can hold a rifle over your shoulder like a ball-bat with the barrel resting on your shoulder.

Uh, I'm not gonna let somebody get the drop on me, so I'd be charging at the mere sight of a weapon, even more so if I was Black.

They could have left their weapons in the vehicle within easy reach.

I would have stopped my vehicle in front of Arbery in the normal direction of vehicle travel, exited the vehicle but left my weapon on the seat within arm's reach, and then said, "Hey, friend, you seen anything suspicious going on around here?" and then continued a line of indirect questioning to feel Arbery out with no need for violence.

Assault and aggravated assault under Georgia Code Ann. § 16-5-20 & 16-5-21.

To be sure everyone is clear on the concept, assault is not the same as assault consummated by a battery or assault and battery.

An assault is simply a threat. The battery occurs when you strike someone.

Oh, yes, it did. That was an unlawful detention. Arrest and detention are same-same. Just because you aren't wearing handcuffs does not mean that you have not been arrested or detained.

Was Arbery free to move? No, therefore he was arrested/detained.

No, the jury got it right and for the right reasons. Kudos to them.

Yes, because they were conspirators and/or accessories and/or complicit and/or accomplices.

 

You are right on just about everything except on. He wasn’t jogging.

 

9-1-1 was called at some point into the chase. But calling police would have done no good if they were not able to keep an eye on the suspect's location until police got there.

What could police have done if they had arrived there? Probably not much. They could have stopped the suspect, talked to him, maybe asked to see identification, maybe captured a close-up image of his face on their body camera, maybe have been able to pull up that the suspect had a criminal history. All of these things might have at least been just a little helpful in identifying that person in the future if he had been the burglar. It's an unlikely possibility but they might have been able to arrest the suspect if stolen property was found in his pockets or they were using drugs.

And if the suspect had refused to stop for police and continued to run? (Which probably would have been what would happen) Well, that would be an interesting turn in the story. I'm not sure if it would have been totally legal, but police probably would have tackled him and their actions not questioned afterwards. In fact it might have turned out to be the exact same identical situation, except the ones who stopped him would not be facing life in prison.

He was jogging with a hammer.

 

Yes, I'm sure criminals will be less forthcoming with police now that some of them have faced justice.

And?

They didn't wait for police before illegally chasing man down for unlawful arrest. And the one who provided video evidence did so well afterward.

Seeing as they had people running interference for them . . . and currently facing criminal charges for doing so . . . ?

I can't tell if you actually think you are making a point here or not. I'd have to make some uncharitable assumptions in order to believe you actually think you have a point here.

They entered into the situation already committing a crime. They killed someone during the commission of their felony.

 

Cool beans. So the **** what?

 

Technically just about any lawyer will tell you not talk to the police, its not in your best interest, so that was a part of the defendants problem. But I am guessing your premise is they are justified vigilantes, and that vigilantism resulting in death is common?

 

But Arbery was the violent criminal thug, these men where just trying to stop a suspected burglar.

They did call the police, they tried to effect a citizen's arrest.

 

Nope. He used lawful self defense against violent criminal thugs. These men had no lawful cause to arrest him.

Illegally.

 

He attacked them before they actually began arresting him, some would say and it could be argued.

He kept on trying to attack the man even after being shot, and then even after being shot two times.

 

Not by any honest person.

Man, he must really not want to have been murdered. Weird, huh?

 

You know it is all too disingenuous to call them "criminals".

If you start treating people who may have made mistakes as "criminals", then those people will actually behave like criminals, and will feel no need to hold to any pretense of following the law.

Basically you are saying they should have driven off and not made any report to police.
Basically you are saying maybe they should have grabbed the body and disposed of it by tossing it in a wood chipper.
Why not? They wouldn't face any additional punishment for that over the amount of punishment you think they should be given.

Because of people like you, maybe they should have done that. Likely they would not even be in prison right now if they had done that.

 

Punch a man in the face who has a gun once, you get shot.
Punch him again, you get shot again.
Try attacking him one more time even after that, what do you think will happen?

 

jury says - try to kidnap a man, with a guns, he fights back and you kill him, do life in prison

 

enough chars

 

They wouldn't be in prison and a 25 year old young man wouldn't be dead if they had not tried to detain him illegally.

 

Your point is well taken. A few bad apples condemned and sentenced by a practically all white jury. This is by far the exception and far from the rule in 2021. I know the left looks far and wide for "systematic racism". Many of us wander through homes under construction. I do it and I am a builder. It's mostly out of curiosity.

 

They had no right to stop him. At all. And when he tried to defend himself against their criminal activity, they murdered him. They were the violent criminal thugs.

An illegal "citizen's arrest." Citizen's arrest laws don't allow you to just pull over whoever you want because you think they look suspicious. You have to have reasonable evidence that they are currently fleeing from an articulable crime. They had no reason to believe that he was fleeing from a crime other than blind suspicion.

Try to do what they couldn't: articulate the specific crime. WHAT did they believe he had stolen?

 

Bull ****. They committed crimes. They are criminals. That's what the word ****ing means. You know it is all too disingenuous to object to calling them criminals.

We can't call criminals criminals because then they might commit more crimes. Real rocket surgery we got going on here.

Why? There were already witnesses. How would that have done anything but hurt their case?

Why? There were already witnesses. How would that have done anything but hurt their case?

There were already witnesses.

Both of the above suggestions would have harmed their case and would have brought additional charges.

In case you forgot . . . they had friends in the department. The district attorney was one of their friends, refused to charge them, and told police not to arrest them. The police lied to Arbery's family about what had occurred. If it had been up to the police, these murderers would have gotten away with their crime. The only reason that this ever came to trial is because the video of the murder became public.

 

The first shot came before Arbery made physical contact.

Illegally pursue someone and try to illegally arrest him, threaten to kill him if he keeps running, shoot him when he tries to defend himself against your crimes, go to jail.

 

While you have the right to own weapons and use them for self-defense, that right ends when you start to intimidate someone and aim your weapons at them.
The trio had no right to stop and engage the victim. As it was pointed out already, if they were afraid that Arbery is in the neighborhood to commit crime they could have just followed him. Their unlawful detention lead up to the shooting.
I’m a pro-gun conservative, support Kyles verdict and support this one. Kyles actions were stupid, but legal, the actions of these three were stupid and illegal.

 

I've been hearing from the Leftists that ALL Whites are racists, especially Southerners. How did 8 White jurors find these guys guilty? One of the jurors was Black.

 

You keep ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that none of them had any knowledge that a crime had been committed.

You are also saying that if a person is jogging down the street and you don't like them, you should call the police just because.

Arbery was jogging, and they were in a truck so there's absolutely no reason why they could not have followed Arbery from a safe distance.

You got nothing. Give it up already.

False

Larry English owned the property. He testified that Arbery --if Arbery was the man on the video on the property -- had not disturbed or damaged his property during the visit.

In fact, according to English, his property had never been damaged and nothing was ever stolen.

Arbery was not the only person on video walking around the property.

I lived in a semi-rural area with a lot of home-building going on. My father and I stopped a few times to check out homes under construction. Why? Because he and my mother were thinking about adding an addition to our house. Instead, they opted to refinish the basement which was faster and cheaper (and they were very proud of it.)

I would walk home from football practice and check out some homes. Why? I had no idea what house looked like before it actually became a house. It's not a crime to be curious.

Also, contrary to your false claims, no burglaries ever occurred.

The only police report ever filed was the dickhead Travis McMichael who left a pistol in his pick-up truck and left the doors unlocked.

I refer you to the scene from the film Full Metal Jacket: "Private Pyle, why is your footlocker unlocked?...Private Pyle, if there's one thing in this world that I hate, it is an unlocked footlocker. You know that don't you?...If it wasn't for dickheads like you, there wouldn't be any thievery in this world, would there?

What suspect?

There is no suspect. No crime occurred to give rise to calling 9-1-1.

You don't know that, that is incredibly prejudiced if not racist.

It's not like Arbery stole a hubcap.

The younger McMichael testified during the trial that he tried to talk to Mr Arbery while the two were still in their truck and that Mr Arbery never threatened the trio, brandished a weapon, reached into his pockets or yelled after being confronted.

To support your claim that Arbery had a hammer, you will need to cite a primary source.

In case you don't understand, a primary source is a first-hand document.

Assuming it was handled properly, police would have search Arbery and inventoried the items on his person.

If Arbery was carrying a hammer, it will so state in the police report.

Also, your claim that Arbery had a hammer fails and is in contradiction to testimony by McMichael. Arbery did not wield or brandish the hammer or attempt to assault the trio with the hammer.

 

They are criminals and they had no reason to do anything they did.

Um, it was more than just a mistake.

A mistake is when you serve me eggs over easy instead of sunny side up liked I asked.

If it were up to me, you wouldn't be allowed to own a firearm, because you're clearly a menace to society.

1) There was no crime.
2) The Trio could not have knowledge of a crime that never occurred
3) English -- the owner of the property --stated in sworn testimony that his property had never been damaged and that nothing had ever been stolen from his property which totally reinforces the fact that no crime had ever taken place and the Trio cannot possibly have any knowledge of a crime that had never taken place.
4) Ergo: There was no reason for the Trio to do anything.

Because you insist there was crime, you are calling the Georgia police and English the property owner all liars, because English said no crime occurred and the Georgia police have exactly ZERO police reports of any burglaries.

That means the claim by the Bobsie Twins and the Idiot that they thought Arbery was a burglary suspect is a lie.

The jury knew that was a lie, and because they knew it was a lie, it means none of the three have any credibility and so they must be convicted.