Pentagon will send more than 50 F-35s to Europe to deter Russia

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Thedimon, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are no S-400's in Syria targeting F-35s by agreement. If that was the case .. Israel would not be engaging in the charades that they are.
     
  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    7,695
    Likes Received:
    2,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe... some think that S400 itself is a charade. By agreement Israel keeps away from
    the S400 - maybe if the IDF showed the S400 isn't really a capable SAM system then
    that makes Putin's export tech less saleable. Israel had never had a real problem with
    Russian tech in Syria, in fact the results of the Lebanon war 1982 might have had an
    impact on the USSR itself when it was obvious how soundly Israel had destroyed all
    the Syrian SAM systems and their air force.
     
  3. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,499
    Likes Received:
    4,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They could have bought a pretty large fleet of F-22s for what they have spent above estimates on the F-35.
     
  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No problem

    May have been the purpose but is not what happened ..as per my post.

    Now comes the made up nonsense.
    Your claim that the expense of the F35 has nothing to do with Design is completely made up - you give no explanation of why/no support for claim (yet run around crying prove it with links when your nonsense claim is questioned - the one that you made up )

    The link above explains exactly why design had a whole lot do do with the massvie cost of the F35 Turkey.
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Some think" who cares what moron's think ..
    "Maybe" Not interested in rank speculation .. and made up nonsense.
    What does Russian Tech in the 80s have to do with anything ?

    Your just making stuff up and throwing it at the wall .. hoping something might stick.
     
  6. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    7,695
    Likes Received:
    2,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's actually a serious possibility that the 1982 Bekka Valley incident led to a collapse
    of Soviet military morale. Soviets went to the valley to determine how Israel was able
    to take out 29 of the 30 missile sites there. They had little idea. Projected onto the war
    stage this suggested the USSR would not win a war against the West if this could be
    done so easily. Another one was how Israel disabled the SAM radars in northern Syria
    before destroying Syria's nuclear reactor.
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thats nice but, has nothing to do with the fact that the F-35 is a Lemon. Russia has had its fair share of lemon's as well.
     
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    7,695
    Likes Received:
    2,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The F35 is what, about 110 million each? The upgraded F15's are more than
    that. The F35 extends the capability of the F15, 16 and 18. And by having a
    common airframe for the navy, army and air force it helps reduces cost.
    Having some super duper batman style fighter jet that can dog fight and do
    Mach 4 is not what America needs. It wants something smart.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you watched the Video .. The cost of the F-35 will come in more like 300 million by the time this sht show is wrapping up .. and the maintenance costs are ridiculously high .. and well .. The F15 actually works :)

    "Common airframe reduced costs" .. What common airframe ? what cost reduction and how much relative to the massive maintenence costs of this plane..

    Nothing smart about the F35 ... dumb and dumber is a more suitable epiphet.
     
  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,762
    Likes Received:
    14,563
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We should have considered selling 50 fighters to Belarus if they can afford them. That at least would provide some economic benefit to the U.S. instead of providing more spending.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure .. Something other than spending gads of cash on something that serves no concievable purpose. Someone suggested outfitting them with tactical nukes .. "Yeah - thats the ticket" - "Why don't we just do that" - to which I answer with one simple question..

    Where will these F35's fly home to ? - after nuking Russia ??

    and if we are going to nuke Russia .. we better go big or go home .. tactical nukes from F35's do not factor into the equation.

    and what moron in the EU would allow such a thing F35s in Europe outfitted with tactical nukes. The EU has some 600 fighters ..and the means to equip them with tactical nukes .. but do not do so .. for a reason
     
  12. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So you are admitting I didn't make anything up in that regard.

    Concession accepted.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What concession .. more made up nonsense on your part .. you just can't resist :)

    Your claim that the design of the F35 had nothing to do with the plane being ridiculously expensive - is demonstrably false -- something you made up .. with nothing to back up your made up claim.
     
  14. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The F-35 is not ridiculously expensive.

    You are making things up.
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I quoted from Sprey .. gave you the link .. why then would you accuse me of "making things up" -- projecting your failings onto others again.

    You on the other hand have given a total of nothing to support your random thoughts.
     
  16. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    5,647
    Likes Received:
    5,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think Vlad and whoever is running things in the WH are playing a “domestic distraction game”. The troop alignments I have seen do not indicate war, but rather intimidation.
     
    Jazz likes this.
  17. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    721
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That isn't true. My posts are all on topic.


    You don't need to worry about me. I'm doing just fine.


    Did you read the articles?

    What we would do is obliterate a Russian invasion of the EU while causing little collateral damage among friendly Europeans.

    The bombs have a small yield, and they are extremely precise, allowing direct hits on Russian military targets with little collateral damage. They also get most of their yield from fusion so they will not spread much fallout.


    If Russia chooses to attack our bases, we will attack their bases.


    No it isn't.


    It is exactly what it is touted to be.


    The F-35 is an outstanding ground attack plane.


    I know just as much about it as Mr. Sprey does.


    If you want loitering and fuel capacity then you want a bomber, and if you want a lot of loitering then you want an unmanned bomber.

    The F-35 is no worse than other ground-attack-configured fighter jets when it comes to loitering, turning, and fuel capacity.

    If your only complaint about its ground attack ability is the fact that it's not a heavy bomber, then the same complaint works against all other fighter jets too.


    It is just fine for making bombing runs against an enemy.


    I already know. But I'll watch your video.


    That is incorrect. The F35 is outstanding at ground attack. At least, it is great so long as you can accept that a fighter jet is not the same thing as an unmanned heavy bomber.


    Israel is not engaging in any charades.


    That is not a fact. The F-35 is outstanding at ground attack.


    The F-35 works quite well too, especially at ground attack.


    No. I pointed out that we are outfitting them with tactical nukes.


    Well first, the point is not to nuke Russia, but to nuke Russian troops that have invaded the EU.

    And second, if Russia nukes our bases, we will nuke Russian bases.


    Except, the point is not to nuke Russia. The point is to nuke Russian troops after they invade the EU.

    Going big when dropping nukes inside the EU will cause lots of collateral damage, and will spread fallout throughout the EU.

    These tactical nukes will score direct hits on Russian troops, not cause much collateral damage, and not spread fallout throughout the EU.


    You are woefully misinformed. The EU is doing so.
     
  18. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Sprey isn't the last authoritative word on all things in military aviation.
     
  19. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    721
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    OK. I watched the video you linked.

    On dogfighting, he has a very good point.

    On close air support, he has a little bit of a point, but he is also overstating his case.

    On tracking stealth fighters, he has a little bit of a point, but he is overstating his case and being intentionally misleading.

    On tracking stealth bombers, he is spouting outright falsehoods.

    On bombing ability, he claimed that the F-35 is bad, but he presented zero arguments as to why this is so.
     
    Poohbear likes this.
  20. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Pierre Sprey DID NOT design either the F-16 or the A-10.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Sprey

    And given he was a massive critic of the F-15 which has proven one of the best combat aircraft in history, I don't think he has any real credibility.

    And finally Sprey was (he is dead now) of the "fighter mafia" which seems to believe that any aircraft designated as a "fighter" should have no other possible role than to engage other fighter aircraft.

    Anyone using Sprey as an authoritative source on combat aircraft design has no credibility. Find someone who has read the work of Bill Gunston or Bill Sweetman.
     
  21. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,114
    Likes Received:
    1,192
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I'm glad you see it that way. 80 years ago tomorrow my brother was killed in Russia while fighting to keep the Communists out of Germany/Europe. We don't need a repeat!! Let's hope for Putin to keep his usual cool head.
     
  22. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    7,695
    Likes Received:
    2,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The F35 is the smartest fighter jet ever built. It's been called the 'flying computer'
    Even its helmet is quite amazing.
    In a conflict the F35's job is to penetrate and co-ordinate. It's like tanks - you don't
    want your tank to get into slogging matches with other tanks, you want to penetrate
    enemy lines and take on infrastructure and infantry.

    Looked this up - $78 million US per aircraft. 38k an hour to fly. That higher than the
    F22 by about 50%.
     
  23. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    7,695
    Likes Received:
    2,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another point.
    I am old enough to remember all the controversy over the F111 fighter bomber.
    Unsafe, unreliable, super expensive, design compromised etc.. It was never
    going to be another F15 and wasn't meant to be. Yes we in Australia grew to love
    'the pig' and I saw its last public flight a few years back.
    I think one day people will see the F35 in the same way.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    sure .. no doubt about that I would say -- if they could get the computer to work .. 12 years after the plane was supposed to be in service.. among a myriad of other issues.. This piece of junk is not even really in service to any great degree .. they get the hypoxia issues figured out .. cracks in the structure if you go over warp 1 .. aka mach 1 .. the speed of sound .. so better not do that ... problems with flying in the rain I understand .. no longer "Stealthy".. is nowhere near 78 million per aircraft .. you looking at "funny figures" .. How many planes do they need to produce to get the price down that low .. and where are we at now .. and .who is taking orders... "Israel" .. few here and there no one really wants them .. only buying for political reasons .. and well .. have to fly something ...
     
  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Really? It has already performed successfully in combat in Syria.

    Even if you were not bringing up Pierre Sprey (and deliberately misstating his background) would you still have the same reservations about the F-35?
     

Share This Page