Five missing teenage girls recovered in New Orleans through‘Operation Boo Dat

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by submarinepainter, Jan 2, 2022.

  1. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I cannot police the country. You can't either, no matter how many people you murder.
     
  2. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    It's ethical, intelligent and EFFECTIVE unlike your judgmental maunderings which do nothing but provide a few laughs for child abductors
     
  3. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you're up on the latest tech, and it could easily be developed.
     
  4. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Murderers don't care about the police, relying on them to save you is folly. You don't seem to understand the job of law enforcement.
     
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  5. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    It's not ethical or intelligent. It's the laziest attempt I've ever seen at parenting. Anyone who is such a lazy and uneducated parent that they'd give over decision-making to the gov is unfit to breed. If you meet anyone like that, you may refer to them as cattle if you like.
     
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  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the right sure supports marriage, how many has Trump had now? how many baby mammas he have
     
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  7. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    @557, it's not they don't know the difference willfully. It's that some people have never had to question that. What I mean is a behavior isn't necessarily "good" or "bad" because its interpretation is fluid.

    For example:

    Imagine a child living in the following situations.

    I'll use the topic of race or non-heterosexuality.

    Grandparents viewpoint: "All non-white people are bad. They're evil and God should have drowned them. I'll disown you ever bring a n***** or f***** to my house. I don't want to disown you but I will not tolerate those despicable animals anywhere near me and you shouldn't either!

    Parent(s): Grandma doesn't really hate black people or gay people but, she is set in her ways. *I* don't hate them either but I would never associate with them because, well "what would my friends or neighbors think?" So, it's best that you don't talk to them at school or church. It's not their fault that God made them black (or gay). Just don't do it. It's better this way. I promise.

    Older siblings (parents and grandparents died): I know that our grandparent(s) had some rather harsh views about people not like us, but she isn't a bad person. She was just that way. Mom and Dad learned those views as kids. I don't really mind if you want to bring a school friend home sometimes but just don't bring any black or gay people. It's not that I hate them. I just...well, just don't do it. Sure you can talk to them and play at school, but we have to keep up appearances. Our neighbors wouldn't understand. You understand, right?

    Foster parent(s): Come here, kid. This is my house so my rules. You have to clean the kitchen and bathrooms top to bottom, left to right. You have to earn your keep around here and I don't take backtalk. Yes, sir. I'm the boss here and you will be my n*****. Now, go clean. It better be done right. I don't even know why I deal with you. Your own parents didn't want you.

    And on and on.

    Now, keep in mind that all the people that influence our perspective about the world around us shape who we become. This is probably the #1 reason that many people will not adopt an older child. Many have already suffered major losses in their young lives and many have already reached their own opinions about the world around them and many have been so traumatized that they basically become feral. Adopting an infant or younger child, unless they are born with alcohol/drugs in their system or a major lifelong medical condition, don't bring that kind of baggage.

    And, since things don't happen in a vacuum, the hypothetical child in these different scenarios has countless interactions with the people or person that raises them so the *messages* about race and/or sexuality are surrounded by other events with that person. A child will not know that those viewpoints are NOT *everybody's* viewpoint because they have nothing to compare it to.

    We see this a lot on the net. Someone will express a viewpoint, another person will counter it and they butt heads because each of them think their way of thinking is *THE* "right way" instead of *THEIR* right way.

    Now, our hypothetical kid has matured and starts venturing out in the world. A lifetime of exposure to whomever raised them will invariably be used as the measure against different viewpoints. When they encounter a situation in which those earlier messages, they are forced to either shift their perspective, ignore the new information or deny the new information.

    Let's say our hypothetical kid is white. A kid gets his dad's guns and kills a bunch of people at his school.

    If the gunman is white, our hypothetical kid will automatically be able to differentiate between his race and his actions.
    If the gunman is non-white, our hypothetical kid will automatically associate the crime with the gunman's race.

    So, the more exposure you have with different people around us, gives us the opportunity to add those experiences when encountering any future situation.

    Sadly, many people aren't willing to consider their viewpoint is really just an opinion and not universal law for everybody. Most things are fluid.

    A few months back, I responded to a post about why black people are stupid and worthless and added some links and stats to prove that was untrue. The person I responded to resorted to calling me stupid and ignorant and nothing I said is worth a damn. He didn't care that he was wrong. He didn't care if he was hateful. He only cared that I did not agree with him. When we reads posts around the net, it is easy to see how they rely on one another to validate their negative opinions about <whatever they hate> and each time they are validated, the dig in deeper to dismiss anything that refutes their viewpoint.

    The shorter way to say all that is "People will only come to understand other people's perspective when they either

    (1) choose to acknowledge someone else's point of view or

    (2) they are forced to acknowledge someone else's point of view."

    Well, I don't mean to sound mean but I really don't care what baggage the mother was carrying. Sorry, I just don't and here's why.

    I was hated and abused by my parents until I was in my 40s (I cut it off at that pass and just didn't engage no matter how sugar sweet they made it sound to go back there). I was married but we didn't have kids until 13 years later. When I talked to people about my childhood abuse, many of them would tell me that I wasn't being fair because I didn't know what my parents might have gone through in their own lives. I was told that I would burn in hell for not forgiving them (btw, I did not not forgive them. I love both of my parents and they are psychos. It's not mutually exclusive). I was told that I just didn't understand that they may not have known how to be good parents or they shouldn't abuse me. [That makes no sense to me so don't try to process that part :) ---].

    I have always been open to hear different points of view (which is why I can't get *stuck* in the mindset of what I described earlier in this response. So, for two decades I knew that I was advocating for abuse survivors so they knew they weren't alone AND mentally acknowledging that my parents and possibly their parents had some junk in their closets that caused them to go rogue on their offspring.

    Then, we had a child and ALL of that came crashing down. All that time, I accepted that I might have been too harsh with my viewpoint of my parents. I wasn't a parent so I couldn't definitely say that was wrong. I didn't know. However, when I became a parent, what my parents put me through made even LESS sense to me. I am not a violent person but I could literally take someone's life for hurting one or both of my children. Absolutely no doubt on that point. So, not only did I not understand *why* they hated and tormented me, I didn't even understand *how* they could hate and torture me.

    I have never yelled at my children.
    I have never hit my children.
    I have never spanked my children.
    I have never punished my children.
    I have never cut them down.
    I have never thrown them on the streets.
    I have never gotten them fired (well, they are too young to have jobs so this one is from the future ;-)
    I have never not shown patience, love and understanding toward them.

    Using the first section I wrote...because I was willing to accept that my parents were probably psycho because of whatever happened to each of them in early life, I was able to differentiate that viewpoint when I became a parent myself. The other side of that is me rejecting and all information that did not support my viewpoint they are psychos.

    And, because I was able to make that shift, it opened the door for me to NOT punish my children by isolating them from my parents or punish my parents by not giving them the opportunity to have relationships with my children. My father passed in June of last year and I have mixed feelings about my grieving process but I have absolutely NO hesitation about being supportive and understanding to my children because of their loss of their grandfather.

    I never did that because I don't believe it to be ethically or morally sound. I refuse to do that to anybody. I took the exact same stance in my divorce. I never once kept the kids from my ex and I never once said anything about the real reasons we were separated and divorcing and I'll take all that horrible stuff I know to my grave unless one or both of my children come to me, as adults, and wants answers. And, if either or both of them came to me and said that my ex was sick or injured and they wanted my help. I would be there. To me, all the things that transpired were not their fault and when I add up all the 462,987,543 reasons I no longer like or respect my ex, it doesn't come anywhere CLOSE to how much I love our children.

    People always ask me how can I "be so kind to an ex that did <all the garbage that happened>"? My answer is that it has nothing to do with who my ex is, but WHO I AM.

    So, again, I can't say that I have much empathy for the mother I mentioned. The moment a woman decides to keep a pregnancy, she has not only accepted the responsibility of providing financially for that child, she also has the responsibility of providing emotionally for that child. The dumbest reason I have heard people say about why they had a child is "I wanted a friend." This is part of why I'm pro-choice. Nobody should bring a life in the world to create a built-in friend. That's ridiculous and we can't be "friends" with our kids because the relationship is not equal and, if we want our child/ren to grow up to be self-respecting, society-respecting, honest, kind and responsible, it is our obligation not to blur the lines between friendship and parent. Personally, I'd rather have my kids have the values, morals and ethics that I have but I don't demand it or make them pretend. They both know they can come to me about anything and we'll figure it no matter what it is. That's what responsible parents should do so it's impossible for me excuse the mother in that case. I'm sorry. That's probably cruel but her kid didn't ask to be raped by her mother's boyfriend and why the hell didn't she kick him out if she didn't end his life in that moment? No, she doesn't get a pass. We all face hardships and want to hide under our blankets. Adulting is hard. If a person can't do it, they shouldn't bring an innocent kid into their lives.
    Of course. Thanks for talking to me about this. As you know, fighting for the underdog is who I am. ;-0
     
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  8. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Which child does not carry a phone on them! They are constantly on their phone. If they opt out they risk losing the use of their phone
     
  9. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather have my kids with me than the satisfaction of not being "lazy" in taking care of them any day.
     
  10. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I'm not unaware how far technology has come in this area.

    What you are doing is trying to force your opinion on a solution to this problem. What I am doing is telling you that there are many other variables in the equation that you haven't considered.
     
  11. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    There may be "other variables" but which of them are more important than rescuing a child from several years of life as some pervert's sex slave usually ending in their eventual murder. To put it another way, given that the device itself is practicable what HARM would it do?
     
  12. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    There’s still a difference since unless a parent installs a tracking app, it’s just a phone.
     
  13. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    which you wouldn’t need to do if you pay attention to them. Authoritarianism is sick.
     
  14. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Most responsible parents install a tracking app on their young children's phone
     
  15. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I understand your position. Clearly, there are things we can do to mitigate this devastating social ill. I get that.

    What I'm trying to convey is that installing a chip *introduced* even more risk because the predator will need to remove it. It's not hard to imagine that an abductee can be forced to disclose the location or the kidnapper just starts cutting them in various areas of the body to find it. As I mentioned yesterday, this also doesn't fair well for kids that willfully run away from home. They, too, would want to remove a chip, and, again that potentially introduces a medical emergency to the already dramatic and traumatic stress that lead to the child running away anyway.

    I am not opposed to putting chips in humans. I can see the value but I can also see the risks. Should we expand that and chip everybody so...

    no woman is grabbed by a rapist?

    a deadbeat dad can be located faster to hold him to his financial responsibilities to his children?

    Chips could cut down on extramarital affairs.
    Employers could track their employees to verify if they really are home sick or out at a ball game?

    Should we chip all our possessions so we can find them if a burglar breaks in and takes our stuff?

    Should we chip all grocery items so our doctors know if we're following guidelines for whatever medical conditions we might have?

    Maybe we can install a chip that is a digital "key" so overweight people can't buy junk food. Diabetics, people with heart problems...Easy peasy. Just like with a prescription, the doctor can add permissions to the chip so the patient doesn't have to learn self-control.

    Maybe we could chip alcohol so the digital key in the person will prevent them from opening another can of beer or bottle of wine once (the great chip coder) decides when it's enough. That would cut down on driving while under the influences of substances.

    Maybe teachers can add to the digital key to make sure students are doing their homework when they get home.

    Maybe the chip can be used like we do for Wii games so it can detect and monitor our movements. That could cut down on people beating the hell out of each other and tell the cop exactly what transpired.

    Maybe the chip could be programmed so that all races go back to segregation.

    Or, what about having the chip programmed to act like a lie-detector test? That would save countless man hours detectives have to do question suspects.

    Maybe we can chip wild animals so we can find the one that attacked a bunch of campers to exterminate.




    Without being insulting, can you explain to me why it is not obvious that something like this can get out of hand quickly? And, while thinking on that consider the fact that EVERY single law on the books was initiated by a criminal and criminals will always find a way around laws. That's why news ones are added constantly.

    In 2020, people were buying printers, ink, paper and lamination supplies to make fake COVID passports. They were on it a full year or more BEFORE the vaccines ever made it to the public.

    Can you truly not see the risk in chipping our children with the understanding that the people that do bad things to kids, are always one step ahead?
     
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  16. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By your own admission -

    - it hasn't been developed YET. So we go back to the question you really haven't answered - are you FOR putting ankle bracelets - the same ones we put on criminals under house arrest - on our kids? Bear in mind they get removed easily enough, heck Lindsay Lohan practically made a career outta doing that. Most kids will have it disarmed in no time flat.
     
  17. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Problem is making it so that it can't be turned off by said kid.

    I mean, my family has the Life360 app. I know where everyone is at all times, and they know where I am. Thing is, my son and daughter-in-law are 32 years old. We know how to disable it. So would a typical 9-year old.
     
  18. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Yes but the parents pay the bill so have full control and can confiscate the phone at any time if the child disables the tracking app which would be enough of a threat to young children who will think that life is over if they do not have a phone
     
  19. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In theory that should be the case but in practice it ain't. You have NO idea how many kids abuse their cells in class, how many phone calls I've made to parents where they say oh yeah, we've gotten calls from other teachers about this, and I suggest taking their cell away - and nothing happens because I see said kid on his/her cell the next day.

    What usually ends up happening is that the office confiscates the cells then the parent picks it up after said kid whines to it's parental unit. Eventually it can get to a point where we return the cell at the end of the school year no matter what the parent says but that requires hella documentation. Bottom line is that we have many more parents than you wanna know about who have abrogated their responsibilities AS parents to the schools.
     
  20. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    But you are not confiscating the phone because the child disabled the tracking app. I'm saying that the parent can confiscate the phone if their child disables the tracking app
     
  21. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're not getting my point: Parents DON'T confiscate their kids phones even when they are flat-out disobeying them.
     
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    You're right. And this newfangled idea of putting cops in cars. Why my god, they could just run up and down the street and catch you if you were going over some arbitrary "speed limit" put on by some woke fool to keep us from getting where we have to on time.

    We should just give all our kids guns.
     
  23. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    AU, dude, sometimes you are just so <ugh>.

    You are blinded right now by what you think is the cure-all fix for this issue. It's not realistic or fair for you to make that statement without any real thought that looks different on paper than it would in real life. Now, if you want to ignore any counterarguments to your post, that's fine. If the mods are cool with it, so am I.

    What I don't appreciate is you labeling me or being sarcastic because I'm trying to flesh out YOUR idea. It's uncalled for and I ask that you treat me with the same respect I treat you. I am confident we will not have to have *this* conversation again. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
     
  24. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are incorrect. Any device that can be tracked must be powered on 100% of the time. The smaller the device, the shorter the battery life.
     
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see, so nobody should be allowed to own guns and everyone should have a tracking device implanted into them when they are an infant.

    Is it fair to say you are not a Republican?
     
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