Kansas Governor Breaks With Biden In Appeal To Gop Voters

The numbers show that by a few months post vaccination transmission by vaccinated and unvaccinated is nearly identical. Part of the reason is because of the asymptomatic infection rates of the breakthrough infections.

What? I specifically stated 90% of Covid deaths are in obese countries. That is not ignoring the rest of the world, it’s confirmation infection rates and death rates are lower in non obese countries. LOL

Healthy immune systems are well regulated. Cytokine storm events that many believe are from “too strong” of an immune system are actually the result of a dysfunctional immune system. Often caused by excess adipose tissue etc.

Ok. You are a straight up science denier. I have posted pull quotes from studies quantifying decreased infection rates due to healthy practices. I will post them again to demonstrate your denial of science. I will bold the parts quantifying prevention of infection.

For sleep.

For exercise from my linked study.

For diet:

General health and immune system health ABSOLUTELY prevents viral infection. To claim otherwise is pure science denial.

When you do a study of the impact of exercise on risk of infection and/or poor outcomes the study can conclude exercise is effective at preventing infection, or that it isn’t, or be inconclusive. It turns out studies show exercise DOES prevent infection. Unfortunately for you the studies DON’T conclude exercise isn’t effective at preventing infection. LOL

Yes, the graph I presented and the studies on influenza clearly show vaccination is less effective in those with poor lifestyle health choices.

No the Harvard piece isn’t a study. It’s an article based on known science. My studies above clearly quantify the effect of diet. You just deny them or are unable to understand them.

They absolutely address infection. I’ve provided pull quotes again with the infection portions bolded to demonstrate your denial of science. I know your sources of information don’t talk a lot about actually epidemiology, but do you know what the most effective way to keep from infecting someone else is? Yep. Not becoming infected yourself. So in a world based on actual science, any reduction in infection rates directly translates to reduced transmission! Sad how uninformed people are about tenets of epidemiology after two years of living a pandemic.

No, my position is based on science and logic. Yours is based on feelings and unsubstantiated opinions. I have provided MANY studies of various subject sizes. You presented NO evidence. You post a link now about superspreading after I already presented evidence obese individuals ARE superspreaders. LOL Here is the pull quote from the piece I linked to again.

Saying you want to stay obese and be a superspreader is no different than someone not wanting to vaccinate. In fact obese individuals are a danger to society in many ways beyond just Covid. An individual not vaccinated for Covid only puts people at risk from Covid. Obese people cause accidents at higher rates than non obese. They spread influenza at higher rates. They spread skin infections at higher rates. Your position is not logical unless you want obese people to lose weight the same as you want people to vaccinate for Covid.

Again, your statements are in direct denial of peer reviewed studies already presented showing healthy behaviors prevent infection. I understand you’ve been misled in this regard, but you are listening to people who don’t have your best interest at heart.

It can be as effective as vaccination and it can increase the efficacy. Both are true. Now is the point in our discussion where you simply must back up your claims with evidence. Your unsubstantiated opinions are becoming tedious.

 

You have no clue what the odds are .. nor what statistically relevant would mean .. so stop pretending otherwise.

 

I’m certainly open to evidence. Do you have any? Since almost 30% of Ebola infections are asymptomatic, similar to Covid, why would you just assume Ebola would be different in relation to prevention of infection?

 

Not true. The vaccinated are contagious for a shorter time meaning the unvaccinated logically spread the virus more. The numbers show that.

Ok? So what? The death still counts. The fact that they are obese at this point isn't relevant.

Interesting but not really relevant. Your point is still that a healthy immune system will prevent you from getting the virus isn't true. A "too strong" immune system will attack the virus in a negative way (possibly).

No, the denial is on your part. To say it "ABSOLUTELY" prevents viral infection is simply...a lie. Even your own information says it only lowers the odds of severity.

Complete logical fallacy.

I understand them just fine, you have a disconnect with the conclusions.

Answered already and you are still wrong.

 

The numbers I presented show a negligible difference. You never substantiated any of your claims. As I explained, duration of shedding is only one small part of transmission.

It’s relevant that obese are superspreaders. It’s relevant that before they die (if they do) they have higher viral loads. It’s relevant that if they live they shed virus longer than normal weight individuals. It’s relevant that while they are alive they generate more aerosols than normal weight individuals.

Provide your evidence. Go ahead. I’ve provided numerous studies showing healthy immune systems prevent infection. You are in denial.

I bolded the parts of the studies addressing infection. Here is one. Maybe you can focus on this one.

Now, this is not my opinion. It’s the results of a peer reviewed and published study. You can present evidence the study is flawed. Or you can present a similar study showing opposite conclusions. But I’m not interested in your opinion. Your opinion is in direct conflict with peer reviewed studies.

You just selectively edited my post. Here is my statement. It’s not a fallacy, it’s a fact. That’s how studies work.

Please don’t misrepresent my posts. The quote function has a purpose. Selectively editing is not good form in debate.

Sorry, no. The QUOTED conclusions of studies I’ve presented show prevention of infection. I’ve repeatedly quoted and bolded the text.

Provide some evidence I’m wrong. You have provided NO evidence I’m wrong, nor have you provided any evidence to support your claims.

 

By the numbers: In the US
Right now there are 17.4 million cases of covid.
There are 330 million people in the US right now. So about 5% of the country in infected right now. That's a lot.
So to break that down per 10,000 people:
527 per 10000
Now statistically of those 527 people 369 are unvaccinated, 116 are vaccinated and 42 are boosted. So if the vaccines weren't working those numbers would be equal, but they are not. If you're unvaccinated, you're about 3x more likely to get infected.and about 9x more likely than if you were boosted. So the conclusion is the vaccines are working against infection and transmission because not only are less people getting infected so they can't transmit as much the infectious period is shorter in the vaccinated and therefore infecting fewer people.
That, my friend, is numbers and logic.

It's not relevant because they are what they are. This is the hand we have. Your point would be valid to prevent the next virus but the obese are and will stay obese during this virus.

My evidence is right there in your own studies. You even highlight it. They all say "lower risk" and even at that it's a very, very small rate....0.5%

 

No, it’s not. I presented peer reviewed data showing negligible difference in transmission. The above is your opinion. By the way, nobody has been more adamant about Covid vaccination ability to prevent infection than I. It does prevent infection. Transmission not so much as peer reviewed studies show.

No. The obese can isolate. They can wear N95 or better quality masks. They can stay away from crowded places. They had two years to lose weight. Instead 40% of Americans gained over 20 pounds. There is no excuse. I’ve been telling people to lose weight to combat Covid since the beginning of the pandemic. That’s the difference between me and you/public health. I want everyone to be as healthy as possible. You just want vaccination regardless of if it’s effective or not.

LOL. For healthy sleep it’s 88%. I love when ya’ll start misrepresenting science. It proves public health is not what you are interested in. Sad.

 

It's simple math. Numbers don't lie. Deny all you want. Go ahead and prove your point. What numbers are wrong. The facts are easy to find.

Again, your thought process is......let's say......off. If only everyone had your self discipline and work ethic. What a wonderful world it would be. Your post proves you wrong. You have a lot of "if only"s. Yes, why don't the obese isolate!! Why should they be allowed out like everyone else!! Why don't they wear the best PPE!!! What's wrong with them. I never said I don't want everyone to be healthy. I accept the fact that they aren't. You won't accept the fact that the vaccines ARE effective. THAT is both intellectually dishonest and factually dangerous to everyone. Despite what you think, you're not on the high road here. You are ethically, scientifically and logically wrong.

This is a classic example of the misinformation you spout. Tell me.......with your 88% figure.....who were the subjects in the study? Never mind, I'll give you the answer.
High risk health care workers!!! The people that were/are working long hard hours and burning out and how the lack of sleep affects their risk level. That is hardly the general public that you present it as.
Your constant misinterpretation of you "peer reviewed" studies make you irrelevant.

 

It’s not my point. I provided you studies showing the transmission rates. Here you are again.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y

Again, this is not my opinion. Your post is just what you think is occurring, not reality.

Whoa mister. I have NEVER said the vaccines are not effective. I’ve spent HOURS on PF trying to convince deniers like yourself that these vaccines prevent many infections and are VERY good at reducing severe disease. But the facts are what matter to me. These vaccines are NOT good at reducing transmission. This is not my opinion. It’s a fact.

If I was wrong you would have actual evidence to counter my posts. Saying I’m wrong doesn’t make it so. If you think I’m wrong you must present some evidence.

I am not logically wrong. The obese drive the pandemic just as much or more so than the unvaccinated. Again, not my opinion, fact. If you want to give obese a pass to do whatever they choose that harms others by transmitting disease, causing accidents etc. you can’t criticize the unvaccinated. It’s not logical.

And I’m the only ethical one here because I advocate for ALL mitigations that save lives. You are advocating AGAINST some of the most effective.

I’m well aware of the studies I post. I post a variety. Do you know there is a demographic that had higher infection rates than healthcare workers during a share of the pandemic? Are you using them as an appeal to emotion argument? If you cared about healthcare workers, you would be upset that the CDC and healthcare worker employers lied to them about the supplies of N95 masks for over a year, depriving them of the best mitigation they could have had.

I used the 88% as ONE example. I provided several others, NONE of which show a 0.5% as you claim.

You have gone from saying my links don’t show ANY prevention of infection, to saying it’s 0.5%, to complaining that one shows 88%. LOL. I’m pretty sure at this point you aren’t interested in facts at all. You certainly don’t post any solid evidence to back your opinions.

 

No, it's not a fact and very wrong.

You better go back and read that again. You're wrong.

I did, I gave you the numbers. I also noticed that you haven't addressed them.

Wait....are there unvaccinated obese? Why yes, yes there are. That would be called a wash....unless you have proof that there are more vaccinated obese than unvaccinated. See, that's logic.

Ok, so your aware that you posted misleading information. That's why you're arguments don't hold water. Post crap, get called on it and deflect to something else. This is fun.

You sure did. In fact, you put in bold type. That should help you go back and find it.
Your post point to a lower risk of infection but not preventing infection.
I'll accept your apology.

 

As always you are welcome to present evidence the study of transmission I’ve provided is in error. Your beef is with the authors of the study I presented. You need to address the study snd data, not me. It’s not my opinion.

Show evidence I’m wrong. Go ahead. Saying I’m wrong is not an argument. This is not my opinion. I’ve presented evidence. You need to provide countering evidence. But you won’t because there isn’t any.

I addressed your opinion of transmission by re-posting peer reviewed data showing your opinion is incorrect. You posted raw data of infections. Nothing on transmission. Where are your “numbers” showing if the infected individuals you posted about were infected by vaccinated or unvaccinated individuals? Where is the study with differing conclusions than the one I presented? Why is your unsubstantiated opinion of more value than a published study?

Of course there are unvaccinated obese individuals. They are at more risk to themselves and others. This isn’t a contest to see who puts others at most risk. As I showed and you conceded a vaccinated infected asymptomatic person poses more risk than a symptomatic person because they never isolate. The logical conclusion is if one demographic can maintain bodily autonomy other demographics must be allowed theirs as well.

How can it be misleading when the pull quote and link I provided clearly states the study was of healthcare workers? Why does it matter? There are other professions much more at risk of death from Covid than healthcare workers. It’s a shame you don’t realize this. Here’s a study from California. Again, not opinion, an actual piece of quantitative evidence.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0252454.t004




As you can see, many occupations in California were at much higher risk death than healthcare workers. So your whole argument here is based on a false premise. Why would stress and lack of sleep affect healthcare workers differently than other workers, many of whom are at more risk than healthcare workers? I find it disturbing you have NO appreciation for other essential workers that put their lives on the line just as much as healthcare workers and paid a HIGHER price in mortality. Sad.

Yes, I bolded all the evidence of prevented infection through healthy lifestyle. You should go back and read them all. It could save your life!

I would love to hear how a study can show decreased risk of infection if infections in the study population weren’t prevented. This should be good. Let’s hear it. You are really reaching now. LOL. Why would I apologize for posting empirical evidence to counter your UNSUBSTANTIATED opinions? Oh, you are selectively editing my posts again. Not a good look!

 

It is a Frankenstein of their own making. They have suppressed treatment and once the vaccines rolled out they tripled down on stupid. Of course the whole sham served it's purpose, Trump was ousted, but now they don't can't stop. Their fascistic nature has taken over and they are unable to deactivate their minions despite the obvious truth that the vaccines have failed to stop the virus they unleashed.

 

Trumpers are an almost incredibly vociferous minority, and their pundits are past masters at manipulating polls

Americans dislike fawning toadies more than anyone, and Trump will tolerate no one else.

I think the Republicans are going to be VERY surprised in 2022

 

Really, because that seems to be your whole point!!!

 

NO. I’ve clearly stated numerous times my point is we should be using a SYSTEMS approach to Covid, using ALL effective preventions and mitigations. Unfortunately public health has completely ignored some of the most effective preventions and mitigations. They have actively advocated AGAINST some of the most effective like N95 masks. Then there are people like you that can’t even accept other mitigations and preventions EXIST and when empirical evidence is shown you deny it. Why wouldn’t you WANT a meat cutter to understand they can drastically reduce their chance of infection by getting adequate sleep? I see withholding and denying lifesaving information as being unethical. You see my act of giving people lifesaving information as being unethical and illogical.

I’m not advocating for forcing you to lose weight or exercise or eat more insoluble fiber. I’m simply pointing out you could save your life by doing so, just like you can save your life by getting vaccinated for Covid. I see no sense in denying very effective ways to prevent infection.

 

Actually, no you haven't stated that (post 90). You're changing your tune now.

Again no. You haven't proven anything as far mitigations and preventions. You have studies that prove things like overworked health care workers aren't getting enough sleep which makes them more suseptible to covid but that does nothing to prove that getting enough sleep will prevent people from getting covid. You are either dishonest or twisting facts to make a point that doesn't exist. I'll go with the latter. Proof again of that is the last chart you posted. You put it there to "prove" that others are at a higher risk than health care workers when in fact it does no such thing. It is clear that you don't have a clue on how to interpert data.
You're not relevant. You're dismissed.

 

Unfortunately for you I know how to use the PF quote function. This was my third post to you on this subject after two posts showing you data on asymptomatic rates in vaccinated individuals you were unaware of.

As you can see, I have NOT changed my tune. You just aren’t reading my posts or can’t comprehend them.

I have shown peer reviewed studies showing reduced rates of infections from diet, exercise and sleep behaviors. You have provided NO evidence to support your position or to counter mine.

I presented the FACTS on who is most at risk from Covid in California. You reject the data. You are a science denier who CAN’T post ANYTHING to support your OPINIONS. I have not posted opinions, only peer reviewed research. You must address the studies, not me. You can’t.

You are a danger to others because you post misinformation than can cause harm. You should be ashamed.

 

My goodness how you love to say "peer reviewed studies".
And no, those studies don't "prove" your position. I don't have to provide evidence to counter your assertions, I already pointed out how you are misinterperting the information you're presenting such as your claim of who is most at risk in California. I don't reject that data, I reject your conclusion of what that data is showing.
Go ahead and think I'm a "danger". I don't think the same about you, I just know you and your opinion aren't relevant.

 

Sure. Keep telling yourself a healthy immune system is irrelevant. It’s in direct denial of science, but I support your right to deny science. But I will always point out your errors so that others aren’t misled by your incorrect unsubstantiated opinions.

 

Never said or implied that a healthy immune system is irrelevant. I said you and your opinion are irrelevant

 

Ah. Just straight up ad hominem fallacy. I see that a lot when I post peer reviewed evidence that conflicts with other poster’s unsubstantiated opinions.

Thank you for helping me educate third parties on immunology and on how to spot science deniers that can’t provide ANY empirical evidence to support their opinions. I’m always open to studies that come to different conclusions than the ones I present. In fact I encourage it. I had hoped you had something to offer besides “your wrong” for an argument—something based in the sciences of virology or epidemiology. You can offer some evidence any time and I’ll be happy to consider it.

Be well.

 

Here's more on a similar point:
Nearly 40% Of All Illinois COVID Deaths In The Last Month Are Breakthroughs. What Gives?

How can the vaxxed make up so few of the ICU patients – those most at risk of dying – and yet end up comprising so many of the total COVID deaths?

They need to back their claims with data.

 

Data on vaccination status is hard to find. I’ve been following Massachusetts because they report hospitalizations FOR Covid, not hospitalizations WITH Covid. But they do not report vaccination status of ICU Covid cases.

Incidentally, the percentage of hospitalizations FOR Covid in Massachusetts that are fully vaccinated went over 50% for the first time yesterday. Today 51% of those hospitalized for Covid in Massachusetts are fully vaccinated. I would like to see ICU data that is more informative, but we probably never will.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that if 70% of the State is vaccinated, but, hospitalizations are 50% vaccinated, then the vaccine is probably offering some protection against hospitalization, but, it's certainly not what we understood even less than a year ago. I think maybe it would be better viewed as pre-treatment, that if recent enough gives your body a jump on the opportunity to overwhelm the virus more quickly than you would be able to without it.

Essentially, it seems to me that if you don't want to catch it, stay away from it, if you fail that and you're vaxxed, you have better odds of staying out of the ICU

 

The vaccines are helping. My point with bringing up vaccination and hospitalization rates is that vaccination is not protecting people to the extent they are being told it is. I don’t want to see vaccinated or unvaccinated people in the hospital. So I advocate for lifestyle choices beyond just vaccination to save lives and prevent severe disease. I think it’s unethical to lie to people about the level of protection vaccines can provide and not provide them with information on other very effective steps they can take to protect themselves. I still see news reports claiming 90% of hospitalized Covid patients are unvaccinated. I see no reason to lie if saving lives is the goal.

Consider these facts. Around the end of October the fully vaccinated rate in Massachusetts was about 70%. The percentage of hospitalizations that were fully vaccinated was 36%. Now Massachusetts has a vaccination rate of around 76% and the percentage of hospitalizations that are fully vaccinated is 51%. Add in the fact about 30% or more of Massachusetts residents have been boostered since October. Do you see the problem with just telling people the high hospitalization rates in the vaccinated are “just statistics”?

Agree. And there are a bunch of other lifestyle choices you can make that decrease your odds of ending up in the ICU (vaccinated or unvaccinated) that no public health entities are telling you about.