Patriotism

Stuff it.

 

That's the best you can do, or chose to do. Thanks for explaining the limitations of your views. I expected better, my mistake.

 

I didn't say they were exactly the same. Each side abuses power and harms people in different ways.
Perhaps they appear far apart in your mind the same way religious people believe they worship the only true god. When it comes to causing harm, you are certainly right to criticize the other side for abuse of power. If you are a Democrat, you are not pointing with clean hands. Your party is as bad if not worse and results are there for anyone willing to notice.

No man knowingly does wrong. If so many people can believe they are right, but still be wrong, shouldn't you question your own beliefs?

 

What made America great was a constitutional republic form of government and a central government that had greatly limited powers. Democracy was something the founders and framers knew we had to have a little of but they limited it to an indirect democracy for only the house of representatives -- no democracy for the senate, the president and federal judges.

This is the only thing in an idiotic diatribe that comes close to being worth commenting on..

 

These claims have proven to be FALSE and have been adjudicated in the courts, examined such as in Arizona (where even the Republicans who did that saw more votes for Biden than the original count), and given every consideration.

Trump is NOT a legitimate proponent for these ideas, as he has committed a criminal offense against America by his attempt to coerce fraud in the Georgia election.

The degrading of America's democracy as Trump and other Republicans are working HARD to accomplish undermines the most fundamental principle upon which we stand.

And, the result is the violent insurrection carried out against our democracy.

There is NO CHANCE that this is anything BUT a Republican assault on America and everything we stand for.

 

Are you also saying everyone claiming suspicion of election fraud must be lying?

 

No.

I'm saying that there IS a process. And, that process WAS followed. And, the result was that there is no fraud that could possibly have changed the election outcome.

So, what we have is a violent Republican insurrection against America. And, we have some number of millions of citizens who actually believe that America is corrupt, when that has NOT been shown.

It's shocking to find your comments in a thread on patriotism.

 

There are indeed many Americans thatbelieve America is corrupt...however its largely not the people who believe America is the victim of election fraud.Those people believe our corporate-political establishment is corrupt and decidedly unAmerican (as in, not America). So no, they dont believe 'America is corrupt.'

I recall this was an issue with another poster in this thread, trying to equate Americans with the corrupt establishment trying to rule and oppress them...

 

The government it not America, the people are America. America is not corrupt, America is good. Our government is corrupt, our polite elite are corrupt and depraved.

 

I agree there is a discussion to be had concerning the "corporate-political establishment".

But, that is epitomized by Trump, who strongly supports the connection between big business, politics and politicians as being important for America.

The problem with our democracy is that Trump rallied MILLIONS of Americans to see our democracy as corrupt, without so much as providing evidence. In fact, he tried to CONTRIBUTE to that corruption.

Now, we're left with a Trump legacy of distrust in democracy. And, thus we have a Republican party energized by that distrust and using it to pervert our election system in their partisan favor.

There is nothing "patriotic" about that. It's obviously closer to treason than patriotism.

 

Platitudes. That's what we get??

Sorry, the issue here is that the founding principles of our government are being assaulted.

You can't attack our founding principles and claim you are defending our founding principles.

 

Its not distrust in democracy either. We solved that hundreds of years ago by limiting democracy with a constitution. Its the folks running the polls and counting the votes that aren't trusted. And they really never should be trusted for any system dependent on voting for its legitimacy.

 

I pretty sure you don't trust the voters, either.

The main point is that there was no fraud in the last election that could possibly have changed the election outcome.

So, your claim is not legitimate. It does NOT cover for the hype that THIS election was fraudulent.

For MONTHS now, that claim of fraud has been hyped and used as an excuse for methods that ARE an attack on subpopulations that might vote contrary to the wishes of elected officials.

We get moves such as in Georgia, decreasing the availability of polling places and the increase in difficulty in voting that is being used to target certain subpopulations.

Weaponizing voting methodology is an ASSAULT on our democracy.

That move IS FRAUD.

In fact, it is a well organized, systematic fraud explicitly being used to pervert the will of the people.

 

My 'claim' is that the claims of election fraud have not been adequately presented. Still seems likely to me the election was stolen, but Im not advocating a revolt or anything based on it because the proof isn't there. My position is we need to focus our energy at local elections where fraud is harder to hide and our individual voices are more potent. Which, really, is a good idea regardless.

 

Explain in detail why you used the term 'not adequately presented' instead of 'completely nonexistent', and how you could possibly back up thinking the election was stolen. Just try.

 

Well, enjoy fascism.

 

Oh, I get it now. To be fair it's such a wild fantasy that you can't expect people in America to understand that you are trying to pretend that the violent insurrection is somehow linked to the peaceful protesters at kent state. That is impossible fantasy to follow.

Now, if I were on my deathbed, 10-30 years from now, I would hate to look at my face in the mirror if I were a traitor. Imagine having to look at yourself and say "You know, it was so obvious. There was all kinds of video of my side attacking America. I just was such a huge traitor and coward that I literally pretended things that were recorded for hours at a time didn't happen. And I did it all because I didn't really appreciate being an American.

 

Not even a decent try Etbauer, but you really aren’t very good at this.

Aren’t you the one trying to lecture people about fighting for their country? Why don’t you tell me exactly how you fight for your country?

 

Yeah, none of this matters. What matters is if you support America or not. You can still do it, or you can support republicans. Now, you can be republican and support America superficially in every way that doesn't matter. But, there isn't really any way to support republicans, and look at yourself in the mirror. At least without seeing a cowardly traitor. BECAUSE.. we saw incontrovertible proof that they want to end America. Don't get me wrong, there are still a couple liz cheney's in the party. But, very few, and they are being run out, because it is unacceptable to republicans to believe in the USA.

 

Here's what I will share with you. I am not taking an active part in dismantling my country. Nobody who is currently supporting a republican can say the same.

 

"Yeah heckin geee. We only put the most incompetent president in history in power, we have doen everything we possibly can to kill as many Americans with covid as we possibly can and are succeeding to the tune of 10s to 100s of thousands (worse than every terrorist attack in the history of the planet). We have replaced the rule of law in the supreme court with a 2,000 year old book of magic spells (no exaggeration) and we (out in the open with no subterfuge whatsoever) tried in every way possibly imaginable to end the United States of America. But you know.. also you guys want to teach the non-disney version of history.. so.. in different ways, we are exactly the same you see?."

 

I appreciate your political principles, but I disagree. I don’t really think one has to serve time in the military to be fighting for his country. But I think it’s not a good idea to suggest someone who has served doesn’t know how to fight for his country.

Stand up for your beliefs, we need people who do.

 

Ok, I try to stay as anonymous as possible here, but I will share this: I know for a fact that not only are there people who served who have nothing but a superficial interest in serving their country, but it is probably the norm. Now, a person who served is of course better than a trump who refused to serve. I'll grant that at least, but, a person who then comes back and tries to destroy their country is far worse than a person who refused to serve, but at least didn't take part in killing their country.

 

I don't think you know what you expect until you are told by your right-wing elite overlords. And, it turns out that what they tell yo uto expect is to betray your country. And... it seems you are doing it.

 

I’m still puzzled why you think Republicans are killing our country.