What Happened?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Pixie, Jan 15, 2022.

  1. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Do we or do we not have the largest most expensive bureacracy the world has ever seenqn
    Did you actually bother to read the post above yours? One more question will you come to believe that we have way more government than we either need or can afford?
     
  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    He bowed like a common supplicant.
    There are pictures of him bowing before the leader of Japan and some Middle Eastern country as well.

    I guess you're also probably not familiar with his very famous statement where he was so arrogantly speaking to Americans referring to them as clinging to their guns and bibles ?
     
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  3. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Are you unaware that the FBI forged and lied in order to illegally spy on the Trump Campaign, Transition, and then Administration in a full fledge assault to drive the duly elected President from office?

    As there has yet been accountability and overhaul of the authorities they misused against there political opponents, this remains unresolved.

    And at the moment, quite frankly, we have more pressing issues to deal with:

    BUILDING BACK BRANDON:

    [​IMG]

    This "isn’t is what we hoped the future would look like during the bare-shelves era of March 2020.”

    Durham seems to be quietly plodding along, but, that sore will not heal until the infection is dealt with.

    And,

    WELCOME BACK!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
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  4. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    It is impolite to NOT bow to people you meet both in Japan and the Middle East.
    I suspect the other party bowed back.
    A great many Americans do cling to their guns and bibles. Otherwise they would have stopped using them as justification for their actions and defended them so vociferously.
     
  5. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    The leader of the Free world should bow before no one.

    I don't care what the customs are he's not a normal person.

    I see you agree with his arrogance concerning people's beliefs on their religion
     
  6. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    OK.
    For the good of your country , good foreign relations, better trade and ease of international finance, the POTUS should be rude to entire nations when on their soil.
    Thank goodness you are nowhere near diplomatic activity.
     
  7. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    The Affordable Care Act for starters. The forceful push for vaccine mandates as the most recent.
     
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  8. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ That is because we elected the wrong Black man ... :blankstare:
     
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  9. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is the primary issue in a nutshell.
    The simple fact is that you cannot control what you have no power over, and no person or government can control the beliefs and decisions of any individual. When people refuse to be responsible for themselves, for their own thoughts, decisions and actions- there is no realistic control over those things or those people. EVERY INDIVIDUAL is fully responsible for themselves in those things.

    This is not a new idea; it is in fact a principle of nature, which we can use to our benefit or ignore to our peril.
    The Greek philosopher Epictetus described it long ago:

    "It's not what happens to you but how you react to it that matters."

    "No man is free who is not master of himself."

    "Happiness and freedom begin with the understanding of one principle.
    Some things are within your control, and some things are not."

    IF we were truly masters of ourselves today- we would be practicing these things and teaching them to our children, so that each generation would be stronger and more successful than the one they came from.
    The lessons of wisdom given to us by Epictetus have existed for 2,000 years- and we still haven't learned.
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I think for some ANT black man would have been the wrong one
     
  11. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    Well, at the risk of sounding partisan, in 2016 Obama uncovered evidence that Russia was trying to make Americans question democracy itself and elections and pit both sides against each other. After Trump won the left spent four years screaming the election wasn't legitimate, and calling the other side deplorables, racists, bigots, and every other ist in the book. Exactly what Russia was trying to do.
     
  12. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Personal liberty is well worth fighting for. Once it is gone, it is gone for good. Unless there is a radical uprising. Increasing the size of government is that threat. When a majority of the citizens become beholden to government, the elite at the top has control of the whole nation. They over ride our laws (as in border security) and undermine our laws as we see District attorney's doing in every large Democrat run city where Soros has put up millions for that effort.
     
  13. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    If there's money to be made, no matter the end result, it will be exploited for all it can be exploited for.
    Division is a money making machine to reality tv masquerading as news stations. Talk radio. Click bait websites. Etc.

    It use to be when the country had a common enemy, the people would unite to, people would rally for the common good of the country.
    Even that started to wane after WW2. As the other so called wars were mostly political and divided in the country.

    But there was a time this country was more divided, and the result was the civil war.
    And as I type, I'd say for most of USA history, the country has been divided.
    It seems rare, outside of WW1 and 2, where we were truly United.
    Even the founders were divided.
    It's just they were more civil and realized compromise is the only true way forward.
    There's seems to be no compromise in our high tech world of mis and dis information.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
  14. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    You left off half of the demands in your scenario. If the demand from 1 side was 10 and 0 from the other side. 5 is an acceptable compromise.

    You see it as conquering slowly vs those who have gained in the compromise, who likely see it as a slow march towards more opportunity.
     
  15. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    A Century of The Federal Income Tax
    The federal income tax is the handmaiden of big government. Before the income tax was created in 1913 the federal government collected three percent of GDP in taxes. A century later, with the assistance of its sister the payroll FICA tax, it collects between 15 and 20 percent of GDP.

    [​IMG]

    Chart 3.31: Federal Income Taxes in 20th Century

    The federal income tax was passed by Congress in the Revenue Act of 1913, just in time to contribute to the funding of World War I. Total income tax receipts from the personal income tax and the corporate income tax reached over 4.5 percent of GDP in 1920 and 1921. But Congress cut tax rates during the 1920s and revenue from the income taxes amounted to a little over 2.0 percent of GDP until the collapse of the Great Depression; income tax revenue was a little over 1.5 percent of GDP in 1933.

    Income tax revenue recovered to 2.5 percent of GDP in the late 1930s and then soared in World War II to as much as 15 percent of GDP in 1944-45 as Congress lowered the income threshold to capture income tax from ordinary wage-earners. Income tax collections declined rapidly after World War II with the corporate income tax collections declining fastest.
    US Government Income Tax History with Charts - a usgovernmentrevenue.com briefing

    ...
    Income taxes to the gov't hasn't changed much at all after WW2.
     
  16. rjjj

    rjjj Newly Registered

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    I'm probably waay too libertarian for this discussion but lets go back to a time before federal income taxes. The REAL issue between and individual and the government was between me and my state's governor. He and my representatives can deal with the federal government that provides for the common defense.

    The governor and my state legislature can talk about tax collection and compromise.
     
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Free speech, a government OF the people............
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It's well known that free market enterprise did not solve the issues with the economic changes surrounding COVID.

    For example, more people stayed at home when they had previously attended class, gone to work, etc. The result was that manufacturers could not meet the demand for toilet paper, food, and other goods for the home.

    We used to eat half our calories away from home. We used to use toilet paper away from home. Etc., etc. That changed during COVID.

    It's magical thinking to suspect that free market enterprise can respond instantly to the magnitude of that change.

    Our many industries provide us with products at the lowest cost possible by fine tune sourcing, processing and delivery times to be as efficient as possible under the known demands of customers.

    When those demands change, it is a HUGE deal!
     
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  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If thats what you consider compromise, then I oppose that sort of compromise. What do you call it when both sides gain something from the other? Whatever you want to call that is what I propose we should be doing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Easy to say, but ridiculous to actually contemplate.
     
  21. rjjj

    rjjj Newly Registered

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    What would be "ridiculous" about it?

    I admit, the USA would look like a vastly different country but the original idea could work.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I do not even slightly agree.
     
  23. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    When both sides gain, it's a win win. It's rare, but happens.
    Most of the time compromise is where neither side gets all of what they want but still gets some of what they want. And in some of those cases they can each view it as a win win. A win is subjective. Just like a loss.
    Not sure why you think each side gaining 5 issues and losing 5 issues out of the 10 issues they were pushing for is something you don't want.
    But that is likely a reason for division in the country.
    Are you only happy if all your issues are granted?
     
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  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Not true. All legal per the Patriot Act. An Act that had to be renewed under 2x impeached presidency and he did so.
    Spying on Americans is legal if...

    ...
    The Patriot Act increases the government's power to spy in four areas
    The Patriot Act increases the governments surveillance powers in four areas:

    1. Records searches. It expands the government's ability to look at records on an individual's activity being held by a third parties. (Section 215)
    2. Secret searches. It expands the government's ability to search private property without notice to the owner. (Section 213)
    3. Intelligence searches. It expands a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment that had been created for the collection of foreign intelligence information (Section 218).
    4. "Trap and trace" searches. It expands another Fourth Amendment exception for spying that collects "addressing" information about the origin and destination of communications, as opposed to the content (Section 214).
    Surveillance Under the USA/PATRIOT Act | American Civil Liberties Union (aclu.org)

    ...
    Anyone a fan of the Patriot Act can never whine about spying on Americans.
     
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  25. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not talking about the number of issues. I'm just using numbers to represent amount of change. I used taxes as an example. In the example of some people wanting higher taxes and others wanting lower taxes, just because those wanting to raise taxes don't get to raise them as much as they want doesn't mean those who wanted to lower taxes 'accepted a compromise.' Taxes still got raised and so they got nothing out of the deal. They just got screwed. That isn't a compromise, its just what we're being told we should accept as a 'compromise.' Which is foolish.

    In this scenario, it is those that gained the raising of taxes that are 'happy.' If they wanted to raise taxes by 10 (10 of whatever) and only got 5, they need only wait until the next compromise to get the other 5. They eventually get everything they want and the opposition gets nothing but a delay.

    An example of a real compromise, one where both sides actually get something they want, while both sides also have to concede something to the other, would be to increase one form of taxation and decrease another, such as eliminating property tax but raising income or sales tax to a degree that both compensates for the elimination of property tax and raises the additional funds the other side wanted. This is just an example of course, and assumes that one side percieves a great enough benefit to the elimination of property tax as to offset the detriment of paying more taxes overall. Its not something I'm necessarily proposing, just an example of what an actual compromise would be, as opposed to the gradual making of concessions that, in the long term, still only results in one side gaining what they want.
     

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