Is this Sexual Assault?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by CCitizen, Feb 6, 2022.

?

Is Bob guilty.

  1. Yes -- Rape.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Yes -- Sexual Assault.

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  3. No.

    17 vote(s)
    85.0%
  1. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Indeed, many partners of severely ill people are faithful caregivers.

    But a large percentage of partners are not willing to make such sacrifice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2022
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    11,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your position seems to posit that a husband has the obligation to take care of his wife while she is in need but a wife has no obligation to do her wifely duties.

    Some feminists seem to want to have it both ways.

    If you want to know what the conservative position on this would be, it all hinges upon whether the two are married.
    In that case, it's kind of irrelevant whether the wife feels like having sex; assuming there are no special medical problems and it does not cause her pain, she still has an obligation to "provide" for her husband's needs. Intentionally denying him is cruel and almost forcing his hand in getting a divorce.
     
    CCitizen likes this.
  3. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am neither Liberal nor Conservative.

    In my opinion, neither side has duties. Both sides should compromise in order to make relationships work.
     
    crank likes this.
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    11,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    An imperative to compromise is still a form of duty.
     
    CCitizen likes this.
  5. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not a moral duty, but a practical duty. Mostly for self-benefit.
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    11,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are describing an Ayn Rand-type relationship.

    In that case there's almost very little point to the institution of marriage in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
    CCitizen likes this.
  7. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I guess so. But this is the legal reality in 2022.

    A man who complains about his wife refusing intimacy is seen as a monster. Nevertheless, he does have a right to divorce her. That may be the only option.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    11,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A woman also can divorce her husband if he is demanding more intimate encounters than she can bear.

    Women have options too. So why should we view a husband trying to impose himself on his wife as a monster?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
    CCitizen likes this.
  9. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I agree 100%. Marriage is 100% at-will relationship between spouses. Just like friendship or business partnership.

    Either side can end a partnership for any reason.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    11,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is definitely not what I was trying to say.
    The point was that you cannot make an argument against the man that does not also apply against the woman.

    It's absurd to say the woman is the only one who is "trapped" and subject to coercive pressure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
    CCitizen likes this.
  11. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    870
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It’s unlikely that the divorce for not having sex can be avoided just by the woman complying. I doubt a man would want an unwilling sex partner.

    If she is just laying there, coldly staring at the ceiling while he does his business, it is unlikely to maintain his interest for long and would be a rape to the woman. That’s not a foundation for a good marriage.
     
    crank and CCitizen like this.
  12. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Agree 100%. Of course compromise is much much more nuanced and if any party takes advantage of the other the marriage will fail.

    The italicized arrangement was standard a century or more ago, but absolutely unacceptable now.

    Some Progressives believe that a man must fulfill his traditional obligations as a provider and not even mention dissatisfaction with lack of intimacy.
     
    Dirty Rotten Imbecile likes this.
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,762
    Likes Received:
    14,563
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope. Marital problems and sexual assault are not the same.
     
    CCitizen likes this.
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    11,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, you're right of course, but maybe she should try to enjoy it. If she loves her life partner, she should try to make sacrifices, and the same goes for the man.

    This is off topic but I believe both marriage partners have the responsibility to try to maintain their bodies close to optimal condition to facilitate conjugal relations.
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    is she using sex to manipulate him into staying? could be looked at either way I suppose

    but as long as there is consent, I say no, it's not rape
     
    CCitizen likes this.
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    what if the guy did not want to have sex and she said she was gonna leave him, so he decide to have regular sex with her? is she raping him?

    the answer to both questions should be the same or there is bias involved
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2022
    CCitizen likes this.
  17. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Both cases are likely not rape.

    The case where the wife has greater libido then the husband is rare, but it happens. About 10% of posts on r/deadbedrooms have such situation.
     
  18. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,517
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Err...wrong. Alice can still give consent if she wishes to or not as the case may be. It's her choice. It only becomes sexual assault if she says 'no' and Bob then proceeds to assault her. Using your logic Bob only has one option. To say 'I'm divorcing you' but without ever explaining why he is doing so. Because if he does or if Alice asks 'why' and Bob answers truthfully? The only decision Alice can make without turning Bob into a sex offender is to say 'No'. You've robbed her of the right to give any other answer.

    This is because by your logic if she relents and agrees to have sex with Bob he automatically becomes a rapist. Bob's only hope of not being labelled a criminal therefore is to either never to have sex again or leave the marriage without ever telling Alice why he is leaving. That's the corner you argument paints them into. There is no room for negotiation or compromise.

    It is also axiomatic that all relationships of any type involve compromise. As an example let's assume you are married or in a long term relationship and your partner insists you have to go spend the weekend at the in-laws because the MIL's birthday is coming up. You don't like the MIL but do love your partner so you go albeit with great reluctance. Is your partner guilty of kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment for 'making' you spend the weekend at your in-laws home? Remembering you went against your will?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2022
    CCitizen likes this.
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think I've ever personally known a couple where that happened. In every instance of someone becoming very ill or disabled, the partner stuck around and honoured the marriage.
     
    CCitizen likes this.
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1870 called ... they want their tropes back.
     
    Monash likes this.
  21. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Intimacy is NOT the same thing as cooking/cleaning, my friend. It's an entirely different proposition, and for females has much greater implications and weight. If she doesn't want to give it, your only answer (as a male) is acceptance.

    If you have an issue with that arrangement, take it up with nature/G-d .. because it's universal to all mammals.
     
  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because anyone who 'imposes' themselves on another's body IS a monster.
     
  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree that married people absolutely have an obligation to maintain peak fitness and condition .. because they have an obligation to stay alive as long as possible. I cannot imagine doing it purely for reasons of 'attractiveness'. That's the least inspiring reason imaginable.
     
  24. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Perhaps your acquaintances are Conservative people with very high sense of duty. According to the data I read dissolution of marriages when one partner is sick are common.
     
  25. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Both a wife and a husband have a right to end a marriage for any reason or no reason at all. For most married men, intimacy is a very important aspect of marriage. Thus, lack of intimacy is most likely to lead to divorce initiated by the husband. On the other hand, unemployment of the husband almost always leads to divorce initiated by the wife.
     

Share This Page