How Long Can Ukraine Resist Before They're The Bad Guys?

I mentioned the left because they are the ones who actually have a history of doing just that; the Spanish Civil War comes to mind. But of course in the current crisis the left has, oddly, been the most war hawky, and least inclined to negotiate with Putin to avoid this. "Someone like me" actually posted a non war negotiation that would have likely avoided this war. But the mood of the country seemed to have actually wanted this, so here we are.

Let me know of some antifa's actually do head over there to fight Putin. That would be interesting.

 

There are additional economic sanctions we could go with, but maybe he's saving that so that there are ways to still escalate a response without resorting to WWIII. But, yeah, 99% of the right wingers I talk to who complain about Biden being "weak" against Russia (despite Trump being far, far weaker) also say that, if they had it their way, we should be even weaker.

 

I hear Ukrainians have been putting together some bottles of fuel for them that I'm sure they'd be willing to share

 

It was very fulsome. The fulsomist.

 

WW1 and WW2 also come to mind, because thousands volunteered before US officially joined in.

Dozens of Americans have already headed out. Whether or not they wear anti-fascist patches on their sleeves, - I do not know.

Not sure if any pro-fascists have headed out to help Putin.

 

I kinda think it is the last gasp of the old guard, raised by the WW2 veterans and believers in communism as a monolithic wall of something or other. We have our own aged one's raised by the veterans of WW2 that can't wait to go to war with Moscow, but most of them are retiring or getting defeated at he polls. Like all elementary school children, Biden probably hid under his desk, too. (but for different reasons, lol). Likewise as did Putin and his buddies in day care, hide under the bed from the Americanski missiles! Seriously, now that the threat of Mongol invaders has pretty much been put to bed, and even though the Ottomans's stomping through Russia still stings, they can finally chill out. They still got nukes, winter, and vodka.
The new leaders here and in Russia and Ukraine, just aren't up to blowing up their lives over things they really don't care about anymore. As long as the internet works and the stock market goes back up, all is cool in the 'burbs

 

I'm trying to understand why this matters. Do we even know the outcome wanted from the Russian invasion? Or what Ukrain did to have this happened.

 

Are you claiming leftists volunteered for World War I & 2 as leftists, or are you simply acknowledging there are American volunteers in all kinds of wars? Americans fought with the Kurds, with the Lebanese Army, in the Foreign Legion, and in all sorts of conflicts all over the world. That's different from it being a leftist cause.

Again, I've no doubt there are Americans fighting with the Ukrainians, but let me know if they are from your paramilitary group, antifa.

 

Seriously? Dude, Russia hasn't exactly kept it secret that they want to re-take the nations of the former USSR. We've known this for decades. Ukraine did jack **** "to have this happen." They are the victim here.

 

Hey, I get it. I'm an old cold warrior. I spent the 80's in Germany waiting for the Russkies to come barreling through the Fulda Gap. But when the world changed, I changed. The issue though is that most of the people NOW who are anxious to start no fly zones in Ukraine (and other stupid actions that would get us in WWIII) and are gangbusters to get the Russkies were the same ones who in the 80's called Reagan a war monger and reflexively sided with the Soviets against American each and every time. But then starting in 2013 they magically, and for no apparent reason, turned into anti Russian warhawks. To distract us from the real enemy, China? Because the Duma passed some anti gay laws? I don't know and I'm not sure they know. No one has been able to answer when I've asked that question. Just a mystery.

 

Hmmm. Interesting theory.

 

What's it have to do with us?

 

You asked a question, and I answered it. Feel free not to care about the spread of authoritarian despotism and advocate that we bend our knee to them instead if you wish.

 

I just asked. if the USA is in danger then please share. I feel this is all being blown out of proporton.

 

You inserted "the leftists" in there as if they are the only ones interested in volunteering. You mentioned Spain as an example, and I added WW1 and WW2.

I specifically said its not a right vs left issue until you talk to someone like you (everything is left vs right issue to you).

I don't have any group, but let me know if they are from your KKK, alt-right or neo-nazi groups.

Or even better if you'd just stop trolling.

 

A lot of interesting things going on with this.

 

They should have simply offered to Putin that Ukraine be kept neutral and independent, not join NATO and not join Russia. And then Putin loses his pretext for the invasion. If he then invades anyway, he has no excuses.

 

Exactly.

 

I highly recommend the YouTube video on this by Real Life Lore. Water in Crimea and Natural Gas are other potential motivations aside from Russia feeling threatened by Western movement towards Russia with former Warsaw Pact counties now in NATO. It is a complicated issue. Much more do than merely Putin being an evil demon creature. He is self interested and corrupt for sure, but he does have some motivations more complicated than lawful evil.

 

Ok. So is Ukrain the first step? Or what? I'm not sure Russia is going to invade the USA or cut off our oil.

 

If you are speaking from a completely self centered American perspective and don't care about what happens to people in other countries then the worst that is likely to happen to you is raised prices on gas. Russia is one of the biggest suppliers on the world stage so this has great potential to effect the world price.

Yes, in Putin's ideal world, Russia would retake the lands pushing the west back to how things were at the end of WW2. The US once gave Russia that promise, so Putin must feel slighted and entitled to it. But he has been content until now to keep the west from further movement in the opposite direction (which has been steady).

 

Why? What concession do you ask for in exchange for that? Or do you just give him what he wants whenever he threatens military action?

This line of thinking is some of the worst negotiation tactics I've ever seen

 

Hmmm. If he tries it it'll have to be while Biden is in. He's weak. But we'll see.

 

Is that what you said when the USSR started moving missiles into Cuba? As I recall the USA threatened nuclear war. What concessions would you have suggested Russia demand in order to back off?

 

A promise not to invade Cuba, and the removal of our missles from Turkey which they did ask for, and got. You're really naive enough to expect that they just pulled back on a threat aren't you? Now I understand why you have the position you do.