Russia will stop 'in a moment' if Ukraine meets terms - Kremlin

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Same Issues, Mar 7, 2022.

  1. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Lol, because we're supposed to believe he's so braindead that he thinks NATO is an aggression risk? NATO is going to invade Russia if Ukraine joins them? Please, as unhinged as he is at this point, he's not that dumb. He wants Ukraine for his own expansion, and he's hardly kept that a secret. NATO is just an excuse that he expects the most moronic of his drones to believe.
     
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So to be clear, in your opinion, this isn't about NATO, or areas of interest, it's really about lebensraum?
     
  3. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    It's about Putin wanting Ukraine, along with the other former Soviet states. He only cares about them joining NATO because that would make it impossible for him to take them. Surely any thinking being realizes this.

    NATO "expansionism" is fake. Putin doesn't fear any military threat from NATO except in those territories that he wishes to capture.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
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  4. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, this is nonsense. Ukraine is undefensible. In case of conflict with nato any asset there would be wasted. And id demilitarized then it's even more worthless.
     
  5. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can't think of any puppet government that Putin could install that would prevent the Ukrainian people from bitterly resisting their Russian occupiers.

    I also suspect that Putin will draw his occupying troops from distant corners of Russia that comprise different ethnic groups to do his enforcements. People from countries that border Ukraine are less likely to fire on or torment people like them with whom they are already familiar.
     
  6. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They can't.
     
  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mentioned: "....territories that he wishes to capture."

    Does that mean you think that Putin has additional territories he would like to "annex".

    I'm just curious even though I think that Putin will have more than enough to deal with attempting to seize and hold Ukraine.
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Interesting theory. Did you develop it yourself or is it based on something?
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well you're the general.
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Chechen troops seem to constitute much of the current Russian force.
     
  11. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Not really.
    Russians fear them, so they are a larger part of elite forces, but I would not call them a significant portion of Russian overall force.
     
  12. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is Russia's supposed intention, then, so not really compatible with this thread, as such. That is to say, it is inconsistent to include one additional, secret, condition, not on the list, yet treat the rest of the list, as if it were sincere. If we were to include speculations about Russia's true intentions, we could quickly dispense with this thread, by merely stating that their list is meaningless, because Putin is patently untrustworthy.


    So, for the purposes of addressing this debate argument, it seems only sensible that we take the actual Russian statement at face value, i.e., that these listed items, and nothing else, is all Ukraine would need to do, to stop the carnage.

    (Answer continued, below the other quoted posts).

    I don't know if that is necessarily the case, since Russian mortars are falling on ethnic Russians, as well as Ukranians. I think it is generally understood, that it is Putin, who is primarily to blame.

    Your view, Josh, makes sense, considering this pragmatically. But-- as I just explained, above-- looking at the offer from a theoretical angle, I could see it being something to consider. Donetsk & Lugansk (or something like that), I could see as just being the cost of doing business, so to speak. Crimea, seems a heavier toll to pay, as there was no insurrection occurring there, when Russia annexed it and, of course, it has great strategic importance, for its port location. But the no NATO stipulation, would not be that hard to swallow-- again, in the world of make-believe, in which this Russian offer were a reliable agreement-- if Ukraine has the ability to build nuclear missiles (or can buy them, from the West). They would, in that case, not need to depend on NATO for defense, if they were able to eventually tack on their own, reasonable condition, for a nation not allowed to enter into a defensive alliance, that if a single Russian soldier or shell crosses their border, it would result in the immediate firing of enough missiles to guarantee the absolute destruction of Moscow.

    Naturally, as soon as Russia became aware that this was Ukraine's plan, to re- nuclearize, as a solution to needing to go it alone, due to their forced neutrality, Putin would be right back in Ukraine, with this new condition, & perhaps others, besides. So that underlines the problem with "all Ukraine need do..." is that it omits the all-important, understood caveat: "for now."

    Of course, total obliteration of a city of millions, which would be met with total annihilation of a country of many more millions, is not the most desirable course for any two nations in our world, to have as their only recourse. Being part of a strong, defensive alliance, is a far preferable arrangement, as any with sense, should see.
     
  13. ManYacK

    ManYacK Banned

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  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ukraine hasn't been a sovereign nation since Nuland overthrew the legally elected president Yanukovich, and chose Yatsenuk for president.

     
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  15. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Banned

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    Speaking of that vile human being, she appears to be sweating what the Russians have found in Ukraine. Of course she laid the foundation for upcoming CYA. From today:



    'Research materials' = biological weapons.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
  16. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There we go again. Accuse the Russians of doing what we are doing. Oh well, we're not called the 'Empire of Lies' for no reason.

    [​IMG]
    We'll flip it here.
    We'll flip it there.
    For flipping is our name.

    And what we do
    we'll say it's you
    so you can take the blame.
    .
    It fills our need
    and all our greed.
    To us it's not a shame.

    Cause that's the way of sociopaths.
    It's how we play the game.

    - Jeannette
     
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  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very foolish of Finland to think of joining Nato. Remaining neutral is the best security a nation can have. Russia doesn't take stabbing in the back lightly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
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  18. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    The history of NATO proves otherwise.
     
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  19. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not to mention the Winter War.
     
  20. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia went into Ukraine with soft power and only 50 thousand troops. They only attacked the Ukrainian military installations. The Chechnyans came in later with about 10 thousand men to guard the airport. But that didn't last long. Kadyrov's been itching for action in Ukraine for years.

    Putin told the Russian people that the reservists will not see active duty and that the fighting will be left to the professionals. The only problem they have are the cities since they want to avoid civilian deaths. They're all controlled in the Donbass by neo Nazi groups such as Azov and they have no qualms about using civilians as human shields - since they've been killing them off for years anyway.

    Unless Putin makes a deal to ship the neo Nazis to Lviv, the way the terrorists in Syria were shipped to Idlib, I see no hope, especially for the people of Mariupol.



     
  21. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    Wow, Jeannette is really earning her rubles repeating Russian propaganda. Himmler would be proud.

    The only question is, how does she get paid with Russian banks cut off from the world and the ruble not even worth toilet paper ? Bitcoin ?
     
  22. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    NATO has been expanding.
     
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Putin can not be trusted at his word
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
  25. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That would please everyone except the Yanks and after all, it is the US that is stirring the pot. The United Snakes wants to get its grubby hands on Russia's naval port in the Crimea so making Ukraine a NATO minion would ensure 1). that the United Snakes has access to a very important naval base on Russia's doorstep and 2). would deny Russia its usage. Make no mistake ...... this is the one-all reason for this typical, American, WMD-style, concocted "crisis". Don't let them succeed!

    russia.gif
     

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