Why Are We In Poland?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Just A Man, Mar 26, 2022.

  1. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Yup. And that is the big elephant in the room that a lot of folks don't understand. A decent chunk of the US population believes we spend way too much money on the defense budget and the "military industrial complex" is this evil shadow entity. Cut the defense budget and fund more social programs, etc.

    Our defense budget is huge largely because we pick up the slack from the rest of the Western world. As it stands now per US global strategy and doctrine the US military needs to be funded to be able to fight and win two simultaneous conventional wars with near peer threats WWII style (Germany and Japan), in modern times it's Russia and China.

    Be "OK" with the US telling Europe that they are on their own to deal with Russia and we'll fund ourselves enough to deal with China for example then we could reduce our defense budget. The US doesn't need a $700 Billion+ annual defense budget to defend OURSELVES, we need a $700 Billion+ defense budget to defend the WORLD.

    As we speak the majority of our multi BILLION DOLLAR Carrier Strike Groups (that cost 6.5 MILLION DOLLARS A DAY to operate) are not patrolling the US coastal borders. Most of them are in Asia and one is almost always in the Mediterranean. We don't need 11 Carrier Strike Groups to defend the US from Russia and China. We need 11 CSG's to help defend the world from Russia and China because most of our allies don't have any.
     
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  2. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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    First, why selectively edit my post, it corrupts the full context and is rather juvenile activity.
    Second, The NATO alliance paid on the EXACT schedule that the Obama Admin laid out by agreement, Trump just cheaply took the credit for it and apparently fooled you about that in the process. Hopefully that was the first time he fooled you or you know what's said...the rest of your post is more meaningless fantasy Trump worship.
     
  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    And why not? Why is the European continent in 2022 not spending more money to increase their military power so that they ARE a deterrent to Russia and a force that Putin wouldn't mess with? This isn't 1946 anymore where Europe was in shambles after the most devastating war in history. They've had ample time to recage and rebuild.

    The question was rhetorical. The answer of why not is because they have big brother America over here to bear the brunt of their defense for them. American taxpayers are funding the massive American military machine which acts as Europe's primary defense force. And if **** really hit the fan American troops are expected to be the ones who fight and die the most in defense of Europe.

    America is in massive debt to the tune of 30+ TRILLION DOLLARS. I'm all for helping those who legitimately can't help themselves if they are in dire need. Europe is not some extremely impoverished third world country in Africa or something. They are a continent full of nations with 5th generation fighters, thousands of modern battle tanks and armored units, and MILLIONS of fully capable troops with roughly the same standard equipment that US troops have. The only excuse Europe has for not being able to adequately defend themselves against Russia is apathy because they know who will be there to bail them out if all hell breaks loose.

    Russia is not the Soviet Union anymore nor are they the Wehrmacht of Nazi Germany actively massacring Europe while these countries were genuinely fighting for their lives with all their might but still losing. Europe in 2022 is fully capable of dealing with the "Russian Federation". Ukraine alone is giving Putin way more of a bloody nose than anybody expected. There is no excuse why Europe can't handle them.
     
  4. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The biggest reason is that Europe is not one nation. they are many smaller nations. The EU is not nearly the single entity that the US is. There will be far different standards across each country in terms of training and equipment. I doubt any nation would permanently give its members to a European Army, especially if they are not one of the nations near the Russian border.

    America's debt is completely by design. That will never change and will only increase. That is how our economic system works. It is based on the creation of debt and shuffling that debt around. It
    s all an illusion and a game.

    At any rate, stopping a dictatorship from conquering a democracy and killing civilians and civilian infrastructure is just the right thing to do. Our presence deters Russian aggression, keeping Putin from getting any other crazy ideas. We live in the reality of what exists now, not what "should " have existed. What "should" have existed is irrelevant to the civilians suffering now. Not to mention that we are a member of NATO, and NATO expansion eastwards is one of the reasons why this conflict is occurring. the least we can do is help minimize the damage through prevention of greater war.
     
  5. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Poland asked for US troops years ago under Trump. They even gave us $2 Billion to build housing and facilities for them. We are just being good allies. Poland, a lot closer to the AXIS OF EVIL than we are, understands the THREAT.
     
  6. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would it save money to house them somewhere else? Living expenses in Poland are significantly less than in US.

    Having 300 000 troops in Europe saved us money, because the host nations helped with the housing expenses.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
  7. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    A whole lot of things are the "right thing to do" but that doesn't mean we as America always need to be the ones to do it and bear the brunt of it in terms of cost and lives. Shockingly I'll echo Ilhan Omar of all people. Thousands of Africans are being slaughtered by dictators every year all over that continent and have been for decades. Stopping dictators from killing civilians and slaughtering children is the "right thing to do" yet I don't see us deploying US troops to fight on their behalf and save them. Over 5 million African children have been killed in multiple civil wars over there since the turn of the century alone yet I don't see any Congolese or Ethiopian flags all over everybody's Twitter accounts.

    Now granted I don't exactly care but she does have a point about the hypocrisy of all this. Well I "care" as a human being but not enough to where I'm advocating we actually do send US troops over there to fight and die to defend them. The Flag on my shoulder is an American Flag. Not a Ukrainian Flag, not an Ethiopian Flag, not an Afghanistan Flag, not a Polish Flag. Who I DO care about and who I am willing to fight and die defending are Americans which is why I have dedicated my entire adult life to that.

    Yes we are part of NATO and we should be helping but the brunt of the defense against this European threat needs to come from Europe. As an American in the service of defending American's I will fight FOR my fellow American citizens. As a American I am willing to fight WITH everyone else's people not FOR everyone else's people. And by "fight with" I mean they better be exhausting every resource and be actively kicking, biting, and clawing with all their might to defend themselves before I'm ok with lending a hand. That means France, Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Italy, Hungary, etc. ALL OF YOU need to have the full brunt of your armies massing in Poland 100% committed to fight to the death to defend your home. Then I'll have zero problem whatsoever with getting on a C-17 and coming to stand next to you. What I will have a problem with is getting on a C-17 to fight FOR you. I fight to protect the American people, Europeans aren't my people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
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  8. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be under the impression that there aren't any European troops in Europe, tis not the case. At the moment, there are:
    Poland: 120,000 Polish troops & 10,500 from NATO countries (incl. ~ 1,000 US troops).
    Romania: 76,000 Romanian & 3,300 from NATO countries (incl. ~1,000 US troops).
    Lithuania: 16,800 Lithuanian & 4,000 from NATO countries (incl. ~500 US troops, soon to be increased).
    Slovakia: 13,000 & 2,100 from NATO countries (incl. planned contingent of ~2,000 US troops shortly). These numbers are likely to change given the current situation. France will command a new NATO contingent in Romania, Germany commands the contingent in Lithuania, UK commands the contingent in Estonia, and so on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
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  9. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK, point taken. Thanks.
     
  10. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    We have them there in a token way for years. Obama wanted to build a proper Fort (which people called Fort Trump in the same way there was "The Bush International Airport" in Baghdad ) but it has never happened.
     
  11. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Do you not remember WWII and the cold war? Because someone must have a pretty short memory of history to ask the question as to why we have troops in Poland.
     
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  12. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    Veni, Vidi, Vici
     
  13. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    It began under Bush Jr in 2008, Obama fulfilled that promise and Trump, to punish Germany for disagreeing with Trump on Huaweii. So, he moved troops from Germany to Poland.
     

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