EXCLUSIVE Iran struck Iraq target over gas talks involving Israel

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Pisa, Mar 29, 2022.

  1. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...-talks-involving-israel-officials-2022-03-28/

    [​IMG]

    Well...the above sheds a revealing light on the ferocious missile attack on a Kurdish oil tycoon's villa in Erbil, Iraqi Kurdistan, on March 13, attack presented by Iran at the time as targeting a supposed Mossad base.

    The Iranian source quoted in the article seems to confirm the allegations of the Iraqi and Turkish officials about the goal of the attack:
    This is of course not the first time the Iranians are trying to hurt American and Israeli interests in the region, but this time they've sabotaged their own European partners - who would greatly benefit from a gas supply pipeline from Kurdistan to Europe, lessening or even eliminating their need for Russian gas - during talks that could eventually lead to the lifting of sanctions on Iran. Which begs the question: do Iranians perceive the current US administration and European leadership as so weak, ineffective, and pliable, that they're trying to bully them into submission?

    I also wonder if Russia's attempt to blackmail the international community by tying lifting sanctions for invasion of Ukraine to their signing the nuclear agreement with Iran, thus stalling the agreement and hurting the Iranian economy in the process, played a role in the decision making process leading to this shocking attack.
     
  2. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Interesting speculation. From the cowardly debacle in Afghanistan to the criminal complacency in Ukraine, Biden has demonstrated his powder puff presence in international affairs. The Iranian may well be trying to exploit this historically unprecedented opportunity to GET everything they can in new agreements without GIVING anything at all.
     
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  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The propaganda machines have been running feverishly on the Israeli side to paint an attack which had different targets into something else. Mainly because those who don't want to acknowledge that the time for Israel's "hit and run' tactics are over. Otherwise, never-mind US/Israeli officials with precise satellite imagery of the targets hit, even I can spot the difference from the video footage of the missiles that hit this target and missiles that also hit another target, the latter another target with secondary explosions causing a smoldering fire that likely has left nothing of that building.

    A column in the Jerusalem Post reflects how hurt Iran's enemies were when a US defense had confirmed on background to western reporters that a Mossad base had been struck.
    https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-702499
    America is dismantling the pillars of its own empire - Saudi editor to 'Post'
    p.s.
    Instead of propaganda pieces, why not produce satellite imagery showing the damage and targets from all 12 missiles? From day 1, that hasn't been done. The villa (which itself is associated with the anti Iran conspiracy, not just for gas and energy issues) and a tv station (affiliated to the same) have been shown in pictures. Now, how about the 3rd target?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  4. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    It's worse than powder puff presence.

    America is dismantling the pillars of its own empire - Saudi editor to 'Post'
    Ex-editor of Al Arabiya English writes that America is failing the region and siding with Iran while dismantling the last 70 years of regional order.
    https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-702499

    I must admit that the progressive (in the American sense of the term) attitude toward this matter puzzles me to no end. Their rightful outrage at the way Trump pushed away US traditional European allies doesn't seem to extend to the way Middle Eastern traditional US allies are being pushed away by their own chosen leaders (let's not forget that the divorce from Arab allies started with Obama's flirt with Iran).

    What exactly makes European countries more precious to the American progressives, the same people who pretend to champion the rights of supposedly oppressed brown people over a supposed white privilege? Aren't they, in fact, supporting the same societies where (supposed) white privilege is thriving within (supposed) white oppressive cultures, while discarding their brown protegees and faithful friends in favor of a "death to America" cult?
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    https://www.heritage.org/middle-eas...es-shadow-war-us-israel-latest-missile-attack
    Iran Escalates Shadow War With U.S., Israel in Latest Missile Attack
    [​IMG]

    watch the whole video, then focus on 0:58-1:05.
     
  6. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    You beat me to my own source :omfg:

    I wouldn't trust Biden admin officials, or Biden himself for that matter.
     
  7. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    If you see from the video evidence and pictures only this building hit, you shouldn't trust your eyes either!
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The only parts of that piece which are revealing anything besides propaganda are pretty much what I have cited. And in relation to the topic of this thread:
     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The idea that Trump would have acted and reacted differently to such strikes is a joke. Part of the partusan politics which have turned lying and propaganda into America's favorite sport. 3 examples should suffice:

    1- The Trump administration blamed Iran directly for the strike against the Aramco facility that took out much of Saudi Arabia's oil production for a week. But Trump then said basically that it was up to the Saudis to respond.
    2- Iran hit Erbil with a similar volley of missiles in 2018, hitting an Israeli/US backed Kurdish terrorist group (KDP), taking out the headquarters of the group and its leadership. The casualties, unlike this attack, weren't Mossad agents, and the base wasn't a "secret" Mossad base, so the damage and casualties were properly reported. But the issue didn't even make headline news in America during the Trump administration. So why did this even make headline news?
    3- In 2020, Iran conducted a drone and cruise missile strike against a Mossad base in the area, leaving casualties neither confirmed nor denied (like this time) by the Israeli government. The issue wasn't givwn any real coverage at all.
     
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  10. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    ...and before Iran seized a British tanker in retaliation for the British seizure of an Iranian tanker, the US had warned Iran that any attack on any allied shipping in the (Persian) Gulf would result in "devastating" force against Iran. After the seizure, Trump basically said: the Brits are great allies, but it was their ship, not our's, and while we have an agreement with them it isn't a "written agreement".
     
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  11. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you expect me to understand from the video.

    I can't wait for the next bout of outrage from the usual suspects over alleged targeting of the press by Israel. Targeting the press is perfectly legitimate when done by others, apparently.

    The article in the New York Times is behind a paywall. I don't know what it says, so there's no point in talking about it.

    I don't believe Tehran would openly admit to bombing a heavily populated civilian area just to send a message to Israel. The gain from such an action must far outweigh the risks, and I don't see any other potential candidate for such a gain than long-term vital economic interest. Iranian leaders might be fanatically opposed to Israel, but even they are not that stupid as to think that openly bombing a (supposed) Mossad training center wold somehow deter Israel or make it cave to Iranian demands. No, there must be a lot more to this story.

    The Iranian version has the added advantage of presenting the Iranian regime as a fearless defender of Muslims from the vile Zionists, of course. This, combined with the revenge - dictated by the honor-shame culture - for the Israeli attacks on Iranian bases in Syria, is why the "evil Mossad" narrative was chosen, in my not so humble opinion.
     
  12. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    God! Am I tired of hearing whiners cry about being "oppressed"! You want "oppressed" try being a Ukrainian living in Mariupol!
     
  13. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Yep. America is literally pushing Arabs into the open arms of Iran's Zionist nemesis. So...is America's divorce from Arabs really in Iran's favor?
     
  14. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    I was being sarcastic, I thought that was clear in the context.
     
  15. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    I sort of agree with your post. I don't see all of the Arab world embracing Iran, though. I see many Middle Eastern Arab nations, although muslim, recognizing Iran as a theocracy committed to getting to Paradise and human carnage along the way means nothing to them. Not exactly the sort of ally you want to align with. I think Israel is finally making some inroads getting along with some Arab nations and America is part of that team. Keeping the folks in the asylum called Iran contained, however is paramount (they have nukes).
    Of course, Joe Biden probably has a strongly worded letter ready, in bold type, to send to the Iranians if they vaporize New York... so who knows what will happen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  16. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The target hit in 0:58-1:05 blew up in smoldering fire. It was the last target. The one none of the pictures show but satellite imagery would.
    1- Iran's position on Israeli attacks in Syria is that if they result in any Iranian casualty, Iran will respond directly. When this attack caused the death of 2 Iranian officers, Iran not only said it would hit back, it even notified the UN that it would be doing so, using diplomatic language. Once Israel began muddying up the water with waves of different spin and tales about the attack by Iran, Iran reiterated its position just last week openly and clearly: any other attack in Syria causing Iranian casualties and Iran will hit Israel.

    2- So far, unlike any other period before where a week wouldn't pass without Israeli airstrikes in Syria, there have been no Israeli attacks in Syria since the Erbil strike by Iran. Maybe the Russians have constrained Israel, maybe you got the message from Iran loud and clear, or maybe Israel hasn't figured out its next step? But lets just say after the attack on the Israeli owned Mercer, we haven't been hearing about Israeli maritime terrorism either.
    You are funny. Iran has stood up to threats to "annihilate" and "obliterate" Iran by Trump. Iran has acted as it said it would. Much of the rest is shifting propaganda fueled by the likes of Rupert Murdoch, American ultra Zionists et al, who like to make sure Iran's message is not received by Israel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    When where any of those Arab states anything but Iran's enemies? That they now take group pictures with Israel mean zilch.
    There are, however, some bad signs for Iran geopolitically. It has nothing to do with the Arabs.
     
  18. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Trump's possible reaction is irrelevant, he's not the POTUS anymore.

    1. Yep. Trump betrayed long-time allies, that's why Putin loves him so much.

    2. I'll ignore hyperbolic Iranian propaganda to give you a short readable answer. A lot of what happens in the Middle East goes unreported in the western media. When something is reported, it's often the work of a local stringer whose biases and personal agenda play a part in how things are reported. Real investigative journalism is rara avis in the region these days.

    3. Some issues aren't given coverage because the source is too untrustworthy even for Israel-unfriendly media.
     
  19. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    So what? Do you think satellite imagery would show a big "evil Mossad training center, beware" sign at the site?

    You miss the most important point. Attacking targets on Iraqi soil with ballistic missiles is a blatant violation of Iraqi sovereignty, regardless of what was hit and why. There's a state of war between Israel and Syria for decades, that's why Israeli strikes in Syria are legitimate, but there's not a state of war between Iraq and Iran, making Iranian strikes in Iraq unlawful. If Iran wants its army officers safe, Iran shouldn't send them to a war zone in the first place.

    "Israeli maritime terrorism"? Seriously?

    Not hearing about things doesn't mean things aren't happening.

    Maybe, just maybe, there haven't been Israeli airstrikes in Syria lately because some people have refrained from activities that are likely to provoke such attacks.

    Believe me, Iran's message has been received by Israel decades ago, through Iranian Jews who risked their lives to flee the Islamist paradise on foot, leaving their possessions behind. Yes, I've met some. Loud and clear, that message.
     
  20. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    On foot? How dramatic lol. How many decades ago? Before the planes and cars were invented? Many Jews accepted Israeli bribes of cash to leave Iran and get dumped on newly stolen Palestinian land and they got to Israel by plane via another country. Many Jews refused the bribe saying that they were happy living in Iran
     
  21. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    This post contains so many falsehoods that it's really hard to answer it.

    Yes, I've met Iranian Jews who fled Iran on foot. There are maybe 8000 Jews left in Iran today, from a community of over 80,000 at the end of the 70s.
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I feel sorry he is so badly misled about everything. He is talking about a topic (Iranian Jews) and country I have personal first hand knowledge about. In fact, it was an Iranian Jewish friend, living in the US, whose account of traveling to Iran that helped me finally decide I want to go and visit Iran, a country I had not seen for a long time (ever since the revolution) before I moved there. I wish I could talk about the issue, but my story first will be dismissed by people looking merely for confirmation of their biases (and agendas), and, second, is more revealing about personal things than I wish to be.

    There are maybe hundreds of reports by Jews of all political persuasion who have traveled to Iran and have either enthusiastically or grudgingly conceded what is undeniable. Anyone who cared or cares to know the facts, knows them already. But one of the unique things about the experience of actually visiting and getting to know Iran is how its spell works almost equally on liberal Jews as on orthodox and conservative ones and those in shades in between. For that reason, even an excruciatingly long report by a prominent British Jewish journalist working for the Economist, detained for a while in Iran, despite so many politicized comments I definitely disagree with, ends with sentences that tell you much of what you need to know.

    https://www.1843magazine.com/features/trapped-in-iran
    NICOLAS PELHAM | FEBRUARY/MARCH 2020
    Now, what made him enjoy Iran are things that more liberal Jews would relate to:
    On the other hand, a more conservative Jewish columnist of orthodox Jewish background, Hernroth-Rothstein, known for being not just rabidly pro- Israeli but also accused by some of fueling Islamophobia, nonetheless - when asked what surprised her the most about Iran? Quickly replied: "how much I loved the country, cause aside from Israel, I have never fallen so deeply in love with a country" (minute 11:45-12:46)
     
  23. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I've met and known many Iranian Muslims who fled Iran after the revolution as well. I have known worse: people executed after the revolution for their ties to the ancien regime. My own family left Iran and immigrated to the US during the revolution. The first wave of Jews who left Iran did so both for the same reasons many non-Jewish Iranians left as well as for feeling naturally extra vulnerable because they were Jews because of the anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist stance of Iran's new leaders. Tens of thousands, however, remained. Their numbers dwindling to between 8,000-20,000 (the latter, if you count thousands who have duel domicile), mostly due to sanctions after 2009, the fact that as Jews they not only had avenues to leave but given financial incentives to do so...
    You can view Iran through the eyes and prism of those who left in the wake of the revolution and haven't been to Iran since. Or those who have. Your choice.
     
  24. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    The way I see Iran, through the eyes and memories of fleeing Iranian Jews, is quite different from the way I view the threat posed by the Iranian regime. Iranians - the nation, not the regime - are not seen by Israelis as the enemy. Iranian Jews have fond memories of their lives before the Islamic revolution.

    I've already posted on another thread a video of an Iranian-born Israeli singer, who chose to sing in Farsi. The fundamental difference between our regimes is that Jews in Iran can't choose to sing in Hebrew in public.
     
  25. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    I'd worry more about Turkey if I was Iranian.

    Of course group pictures mean zilch. Real life cooperation in sensitive areas, however, means a lot more than group pictures. Now that the US is no longer holding their collective hand, Arab leaders might feel less constrained by concerns of public image or losing US support over bad behavior.

    What bad signs?
     

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