Manchin Rejects 20% Tax For Billionaires: ‘Everybody Has To Pay Their Fair Share’

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bluesguy, Mar 29, 2022.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    First since tax rates vary some much state to state you have to consider each individually and one cannot dictate to the other or to federal taxes. This thread is about federal taxes and you said income taxes.

    Effective income tax rate

    upload_2022-4-1_19-13-57.png
    upload_2022-4-1_19-13-19.png
    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/historical-average-federal-tax-rates-all-households
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sigh.....I gave you the court ruling, the inheritance tax is NOT a direct tax it is an assessment on a transaction as stretched is that ruling. And no you cannot tax someone's wealth during ANY time of that person's life you will have to pass and amendment and have the state ratify it.

    This is not about Trump and historians have been writing about it since the end of the Civil War it is studied in history classes and law schools.
     
  3. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    However much they raise, they’ll spend 50% above that more than before…
     
  4. Starcastle

    Starcastle Well-Known Member

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    Of course.
     
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  5. Starcastle

    Starcastle Well-Known Member

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    Some more revenue sources we could tap.

    1. Legalizing marijuana nationwide. Allow it to be grown as a cash crop and regulate it and tax it like tobacco.

    2. Restricting significantly the tax exempt status of churches and charities. If a church or charity are acting as a money making enterprise they should be taxed. If a church or charity are being used to promote a political point of view they should be taxed.

    3. Allow drilling leases in Anwar.
     
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  6. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Well when the left rally to strip the successful of their wealth at a MUCH GREATER percentage of these that chose to the lower route of working FOR the innovative then I'd thing that is the meaning of partisan ;) And if I might add ingrateful ;)
     
  7. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    There are generally no slaves in the PRC unless you are a NK defector into China and are caught in the sex trafficking rings there. However, what one can pay in China compared to here is a difference of living standards, not whether or not one is a slave.
     
  8. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    Again, stop with the circular arguments. The ruling you gave was WAY BEFORE the 16th admendment was passed and ratified. Again, you stated in your first post that a inheritance or wealth tax requires a constitutional admendment. That is complete BS. You know it, I know it and everyone else who has replied to you and disagreed with you knows it.


    None of the historians I know, read, taught, lectured, etc, on Lincoln have argued this except Liberterarians. Most put Lincoln in the Top 5 of the Greatest Presidents and argued that the income tax passed by Lincoln and Congress was a "war" tax, which was Constitutional at that time. What happened after the Civil War with Congress keeping the tax system and renewing the system is probably where it became Unconstitutional, in that same ruling you keep referring to.
     
  9. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    1. Legalizing mariguana will not add too much to federal coffers, but will be a boom to local and state sales tax coffers, like Colorado.
    2. This proposal will not happen. We have had a history of laizze-faire attitude towards religion. By taxing churches, then those churches would generally be subject to all the other laws on the books.
    3. Drilling anyware does not help the revenue coffers at all. I would help, to some extent, the price of gas being lowered, but not overall revenue.

    Currently, the federal government has an estimated tax gap of $441 billion per year. I would recommend a priority of closing that tax gap.
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Stop trying to conflate the estate tax with the incme tax. Cite the 16th Amendment where it authorizes a tax on wealth or inheritence.

    Not my problem your reading has been so limited. And the tax on inheritence as I note was chellenged after the war ended and I gve you the ruling that Sid it was legal because it was not a direct tax. That STILL stands your specious assertions notwithstanding.
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then churches and religious organization would be free to engage in s much politiclal activity as any other group.
     
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  12. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh no......3.8 million slaves, that's not a lot! https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/...es-,Prevalence,thousand people in the country.
     
  13. Starcastle

    Starcastle Well-Known Member

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    We need to increase the royalties for those leases then. According to this report the government got 12% of the money from leases on public land. Increase that to 25% when crude is so high. I'm not an expert in this but they could scale this in a way that could bring $50-100B in additional revenues.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archi...st-from-oil-and-gas-leases-on-public-land.php

    The federal government collects $250B a year from tobacco excise taxes. We could bring in a similar amount from marijuana.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
  14. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    The Federal Government Tax system on fossil fuels, namely oil and natural gas, does not occur at the drilling site. It is based on the last transaction in the chain of providing. Even at full capacity, including ANWAR and other places, it would be an addtional tax revenue of $20 to $51 billion. But it's never at the lease sight. The lease revenue and related expenditures will be reported on the considated returns of the oil service companies, taxed at the rate of the tax entity was created or chosen.
     
  15. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ If Manchin would change his vote on SC Justice Jackass-Jackson he should have a statue on Capitola Hill with the word ' HOPE ' inscribed ... :wink:
     
  16. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    The Constitutionality of a wealth tax is very uncertain. Any $Billionaire that paid them would promptly file for a refund and then wait for the litigation outcomes.

    But, by all means tax these Woke $Billionaires that love to attack the working and middle class as they virtue signal for the Left. Tax the crap of out of them, I dare you. The Left won't, they too just like to virtue signal, knowing full well that they are also their donors.

    "West Virginia's state treasurer defeated a 24-year Democrat treasurer to get the job in 2020. Now he is sticking up for coal in its battle with the banks. "The state treasurer sticking it to banks," Politico said, "Moore has become a leading voice against financial firms’ factoring climate risk into lending decisions. He leads a 15-state coalition that is fighting back against the divestment movement. West Virginia earlier this year became the first state to pull out of an investment fund because of a net-zero commitment when it withdrew from a fund managed by BlackRock Inc."

    These colluding $Billionaires are in league with Lying Fake News Media and the rest of the liars that conspire in service to the Democrats. Sure, but, we are supposed to go to bat to protect them from the Left's confiscatory taxes? Don't make me laugh.
    Trump got wrapped up with the Deep State. The Senate slow walked confirmation of his nominees and surrounded him with Deep State backstabbers. Our next president needs to be able to draw on this talent from our State Capitals to fill out the cabinet positions and the heads of these runaway federal agencies.
    Damn straight. And as for the Left's bluff that they are going to tax the crap out of Woke $Billionaires? We've called it and you folks won't do squat.

    [​IMG]
    Princess "Won't Do Squat".​
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  17. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    No it's not. We have had a wealth tax in this country since 1913. It is generally the Estate and Gift taxes, and they are the oldest taxes, besides tarriffs, on the books.

    Second, climate change is not a hoax. It is very real. But climate change has been misidentified, misinterpreted, misused, abused, etc for political gain by both parties. Technically, what climate change really is, is the rise of surface water temperatures. The rise of surface water temperatures do have an affect, sometimes direct and sometimes indirect, with ocean currents and air streams, which affect the weather in certain parts of the world, the availablity for water to drink, to grow crops, etc.

    The problem is, "what to do next" is the question. And in politics, no one has the right answer so far.

    Coal is a very dirty fuel. It always has and always will be. We have had technology to make that dirty fuel a "little cleaner" but it is still a dirty fuel nonetheless. So are most fossil fuels with the exception of certain natural gases.
     
  18. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    First, this is all BS. The Billionaires are part of the Left's coalition and you are never going to effectively tax them, this is all yet another of the Left's charades and I'll prove it. While your wealth scheme is constitutionally dubious repealing Section 102 - Gross income does not include the value of property acquired by gift, bequest, devise, or inheritance is clearly constitutional would immediately raise scads of money, and the Gentry Privileged Left will never stand for it.
    Then focus on preventing contamination of groundwater rather than the Carbon Doomsday hoax.
    I do, and I already gave it to you. Repeal section 102. I dare you.
    And yet they fight NG just as hard, because the "environmental movement" isn't actually about the environment at all, it's about top down control by a connected coordinating clique.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  19. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    They HAVE it all

    Government in this era of fiat money is the actual ultimate source of all money. Taxes are a convenient fiction to keep people from realizing this
     
  20. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    For starters, it is not BS. Second, there are billionaires who are conservative and billionaires who are liberal. This link provides 10 billionaires who bankrolled Trump's election and/or reelection campaign. And then you have this link who are bankrolling GOP candidates. I'm not saying this should not be done, but to think that billionaires are only on the liberal side is unrealistic by any political standard.

    Third, what you are citing in 26 USC 102 is the receipt of property or money by gift or estate. That is not what a wealth tax is, nor ever has been. As 26 USC 61, states, all income derived from whatever source is taxable unless otherwise excluded in this chapter. Even by repealing 26 USC 102, all you are doing is making taxable gifts and inheritances by the person who receives it, not by the person who gave it. Under subtitle B, of the United States Code 26, is where you find all the estate and gift tax laws, including the requirements to file the estate tax. Subtitle A of the code is the code where you will find most of the personal and corporate income tax for determining gross income, taxable income, credits, deductions, etc.

    Fourth, I am not going to start discussing on what we should do in as far as environmental solutions. All I am saying is that no political party has offered any realistic solutions. The GOP does not want to discuss this and try to revert the old argument of "it's a hoax" in order not to discuss any proposed solutions on their own.

    Finally, the environmental movement has been here in the United States for over 100 years. President Theodore Roosevelt was the first conservation president, and the first "environmental" president in our history. From there, politics got involved and it all went to hell. In other words, being an evironmentalist is not what you see in movies, or on TV, or in the news media. Most do small things and are away from the camera and spotlight. The ones with the biggest horns and the webpages don't always speak from authority either.
     
  21. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    Or we could be taxing you in terms of sheep, goats, cows, cats, dogs, wives, children, etc. Would that work for you?
     
  22. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    The BS is that the Left is ever going to tax them effectively. They won't because they are their donors, but, they will engage in lots of performative BS.
    No **** Sherlock, that was my point. Repeal this and you don't even need the estate tax and it will bring in gobs of tax income taxed at the same rate as ordinary income, which is why the Left will never do it, it would actually increase taxes on the filthy rich and the privileged leftwing Gentry would pitch a fit for the ages.
    Blah Blah Blah it still taxes their wealth. And the wealthy receive far more such income than the Working and Middle Class. You're all talk. You have no actual desire to tax $Billionaires, you just want the issue for poses. Like NASA whose funding never recovered from actually landing people on the moon, you just want to ride the issue and never actually get anywhere.
    You brought it up and I responded to it, and yes, it's yet another pile of authoritarian crap from the Left. Cleaning up groundwater, which you did mention, I'm all for, but, what really drives the Left isn't that, it's Degrowth Energy Starvation and consolidating the power of a connected clique which they imagine they will remain in control of.

    But, the European Nations that just cut themselves off from Russian Energy, which they are heavily dependent on due to investing in pretend "Green: boondoggles rather than real reliable twenty first energy sources will be like the dog that finally caught the car its been chasing.
    Conservationism, like the word Liberal that the Left also stole and twisted into knots, it's not the Carbon Doomsday Cult, which may I remind you, you said you weren't going to discuss, even though you brought it up and continue on and on and on and on about it as if sheer repetition of an invalid point strengthens it.
    Word salad that doesn't advance, or even clarify your point.
     
  23. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Could you clarify that just a little?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  24. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    It's not BS and has nothing to do with how "rich" you are. It is the $3000 savings accont from Grandpa leaving to his grandson when he passes away. It is about the Mother giving a family heirloom to the daughter for her wedding ceremony, it is about the person who donate $50 a month to a charity of their choosing. And the list goes on. Making receipt of a gift or estate taxable will have far greater consequesnces on the average person than you realize. And for what? A partisan hack job?

    Repeal this and the estate tax would still be there. They are two seperate things. It would be like repealing IRC 26 104, 105 and 106 and thinking that medical insurance companies would no longer be required. It won't happen in this reality or any other.

    The only thing I brought up was that both political parties have not provided any REAL solutions on some of the most pressing issues of our time. And BTW, you brought up the whole "climate change is a hoax" thing.

    They cut themselves off from Russia Gas and are now buying from us, amongst other nations, China, Iran, Venezuela and Nigeria. EU was already, or more than likely, had a backup plan already in place in case something like Russia invading another country unprovoked and that country was located in Europe. Or they could stop the decommissining of those nuclear reactors as well. .

    definitions of words change over time. The right use the word "liberal" like a four letter word. Conservativism is broad connocations and meanings depending on where you are in the time line. A conservative from a 100 years ago may be considered a liberal today. But that really has nothing to do with this conservation, does it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  25. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All reasonably good ideas.
     
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