Illegal migrants first to get ‘pallets’ of hard-to-find baby formula

That's an odd one about US politics. You imply here as I have seen elsewhere that they right wingers are more anti-semitic. Yet it is also right wingers who are pro-israel and turn a blind eye to the treatment of Palestinians.

 

Killing people in Buffalo?

 

That doesn't remotely cover most immigrants, but I'm glad you have that particular straw man to obsesses over.

Illegals would cost us a lot less if we had more reasonable immigrational policies. Most of the "clogging" comes from that. Meanwhile, they tend to commit less crime than your average native born citizen. No, I didn't miss that.

 

One guy. In Chicago over 1,000 people have been shot this year with 200 of them dying. And that’s just Chicago. I keep hearing about this lethal white supremacist threat but their body count is no where near what democrat cities are offering up.

This guy needs to get the death penalty and very few people will shed a tear. The murderers in Chicago and elsewhere will have advocates fighting to get them released.

 

Good point. Too often we see anti-immigration views spun as racist views. It is a dishonest tactic of too many on the left.

 

If US foreign policy causes conditions that leads to the illegal migration, does the US have an ethical responsibility to absorb some of that cost?

 

But does it apply to most illegal immigration? Nobody here is speaking against legal immigrants.

I do know that most illegal immigration is done not by sneaking across borders but by overstaying visas, and that group did at least apply for the initial Visa so likely isn't included in the depiction you were responding to either.

Your interlocutors seem primarily concerned with people who come across the border illegally.

 

Most likely, yes. I'll do more digging to verify, though. Most of the cost when it comes to illegal immigration comes from enforcement, not from actual costs imposed by the immigrants themselves. I have yet to see any economic study that says it would be cheaper to increase enforcement than it would be to just grant amnesty. I'm not saying that's what we should do, but if economics were the only consideration? Yes, if economics were the only consideration, we'd have open borders. As for the kids in our custody, it's a stretch to call them "illegal." For the most part, they are here awaiting asylum/refugee hearings, which is legal.

But their numbers include those who surrendered themselves at the border, which is perfectly legal. Nor does crossing the border illegally disqualify someone from applying for asylum/refugee status.

 

I've personally faced much, much more anti-Semitism from the right. But I have faced it from both sides, and keep in mind that I grew up in a red state, which does skew the results.

 

Sure. I am just looking to keep the discussion on point. It isn't about all immigration or even all illegal immigration. It is about people who come across the border illegally (which excludes even most illegal immigrants), and the claim that such people tend to be desperate, or criminal (aside from the crossing) is a claim that on the face of it seems likely. Border security measures would be designed to keep these people (and only these people) out. As Trump put it "a big wall with a beautiful door".

 

Yeah I wish that wasn’t because it fits in with their evangelical world view. But it is.

 

But if we are talking about the OP -- about supplies for kids -- then the kids aren't criminal. It isn't a crime for your parent to bring you across the border. And the majority of these border offenses are misdemeanors. And, again, many of these asylum seekers (and even their parents) didn't even cross the border illegally in the first place. It's legal to seek asylum in this country or to appeal for refugee status. Trump's misguided wall wouldn't have changed that. We'd still have these kids in our custody.

 

If you bomb another country, interfere in their "regime change", or allow your corporations to exploit them mercilessly, do you not have some responsibility for the fallout of that, including waves of economic migrants coming your way?

 

whoa, you just ****** up.

No one gives a **** that they commit, according to you, less crime. It's that those crimes WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED had they not illegally passed our borders. Every single crime has a victim that I guess doesn't matter, eh?

https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/crime-records/texas-criminal-illegal-alien-data

Between June 1, 2011, and April 30, 2022, these 252,000 illegal aliens were charged with more than 420,000 criminal offenses which included arrests for 775 homicide charges; 50,443 assault charges; 7,826 burglary charges; 51,512 drug charges; 785 kidnapping charges; 20,502 theft charges; 32,868 obstructing police charges; 2,323 robbery charges; 5,292 sexual assault charges; 6,304 sexual offense charges; and 4,707 weapon charges. DPS criminal history records reflect those criminal charges have thus far resulted in over 157,000 convictions including 359 homicide convictions; 19,117 assault convictions; 4,033 burglary convictions; 22,343 drug convictions; 259 kidnapping convictions; 8,504 theft convictions; 13,898 obstructing police convictions; 1,372 robbery convictions; 2,508 sexual assault convictions; 2,993 sexual offense convictions; and 1,675 weapon convictions.

well, that's just Texas but the list is pretty long when you look at those exact criminals who come here and go on crime sprees and then go back over the border. Some pretty famous ones, too. Of course I'd be happy to link the amount of money that say, Texas spends on ESL classes and free meals and gang crime if you'd like. I'm not even getting into the insurance industry that's pounded by illegals who drive with no insurance (one hit me recently, I used to arrest a lot of them for that) or the shitty neighborhoods littered with crime. So no, they're not needed and should just fix their own place instead of ruining this country, to which they are 100% committed.

 

But how do you propose to stop them?
Build a wall?
Trump campaigned on that. Why didn't it happen? Was it found ineffective and a big waste of money because they will just climb over or under such a wall?

Ship them back immediately on finding them?
That only works for those who you catch crossing. Others may have not come across illegally, so need to be taken into custody and be processed. Or do you think we should all have to carry papers on us at all times?

And even with the above, how many do you think you would catch and how effective do you think such a program would be in stopping such crime as compared to other measures including social measures such as the one in the OP?

Does it cost more in money and lives to go to the left or right on this issue? I can't tell. And I think political bias muddies the water here significantly.

 

Number one; arrest and fine those who hire them. 2, deport deport deport. 3, mind the border with the guys that's named for.

 

1 makes sense, but good luck getting the Republicans OR the Democrats on board with that. The dirty truth is that too many Americans depend on services from these illegals they deplore.

2 also makes sense for those you catch who actually are illegal immigrants. It won't be a high percentage.

3 I don't understand what you are trying to say.

 

I am curious if they actually did this if it would cause more US companies to off shore jobs. Hiring illegal labour within the US would be treated differently than hiring the same labour outside of it. Would that push companies to off shore more jobs, including peripheral attached jobs now done by Americans?

 

Lol @ this is Trumps fault.

 

It's also very intentional.

 

Are you suggesting that people getting caught swimming across the Rio Grande from Mexico to the US are not a "high percentage" of illegal aliens? That's a stretch, considering Citizens and legal residents can just cross at the normal border crossing point.

 

Lol at conservatives bragging about Trumps trade policy.

 

I know they are not a high percentage of illegal aliens. Most illegal aliens are people who come in on legal visas and overstay. Many others who do cross illegally don't get caught. Only a very small percentage illegal immigrants actually get caught crossing the border.

 

the jobs they do are labor intensive, not sure if off-shore is gonna cut it. I’m thinking it’ll just drive wages up to a level where citizens can still do them, but it’s not likely a “livable wage” or whatever that is depending on the zip code.
You’re right, people who hire them are on both ends of the political spectrum, but see this as a financial evil, so to speak.

 

3 is the border patrol doing their job of protecting the border.