Looking at the REASON for punishment for killing fetus if mother wanted it

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, May 12, 2022.

  1. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think you understand what you're talking about.

    The Bush laws you're talking about sought to end anyone but doctors engaging in euthanasia (i.e. assisted suicide) as well as requiring hospitals to spend 10 days trying to save a life. Prior to that, hospitals could stop medical help and let someone die if payment could not be made.

    https://texasrighttolife.com/euthanasia-president-bush-and-texas-law/

    Other laws he helped sign were ending partial birth abortion and expanding SCHIP for those poor mothers you're accusing him of wanting to kill.

    https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/achievement/chap15.html

    You follow that up with some nonsense about how a baby without lungs was killed by the evil Republicans.

    Your argument is a joke, poorly thought out, and basically nonsense.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2022
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  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so the right wants to force women to be incubators, but allow doctors to withhold treatment against a mother's wishes if she can not pay the bill?
     
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  3. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Go ahead and double down on that. Anyone with two brain cells will see it for what it is.
     
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Shouldn't the mother get all the more punishment if the baby was an in-demand baby, and would have easily fetched a high price on the adoption market?
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    why are people selling children? is that what this is really about? selling children?
     
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes they can, it's sad that republican took the choice away from poor parents
     
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  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That wasn't my main point. The point was there are other people who want these babies.

    You claimed that Republicans would be more inclined to let poor women abort. I was just correcting you and claiming that is not exactly the case... although you might not be too far off.

    It's sad that Democrats pushed a poor woman into aborting even though there were plenty of loving families who would have wanted to adopt that baby.

    Maybe if we changed the law and allowed a pregnant woman to receive some money if a couple ends up wanting to adopt her baby, it would help reduce the abortion rate and make everyone happier.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  8. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    THAT has NOT happened....



    There aren't.



    They do receive money if they incubate for others. But the pregnant woman better get a lawyer to write up a air-tight contract so the couple sticks to the agreement...and doesn't back out..
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for ONCE AGAIN showing that for Anti-Choicers it is all, and ONLY, about punishing women.
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, people would like to adopt, but can't afford it, that is sad.....

    nope, only the right wants the government deciding for women, the left believes they can decide for themselves
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  11. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    When I saw the title and the length of the OP I thought I might actually find out precisely what your proposal would be to punish women who chose to 'kill' their unborn'. I waded patiently through these paragraphs to find your maximum minumum sentencing guidelines for the newly created crime of inducing their abortion through a chemical, pharmaceutical or physical procedure. I expected to learn if you wanted having an abortion to be a misdemeanor low level crime with token jail time, or a penalty commeasurate with a manslaughter or third degree murder rap, or maybe an agravating sentencing factor to first degree homocide and a capital offense. Exactly what the range for years incarceration you would oblige judges to sentence these criminals for. Here's some possible options to choose from.

    Maybe you see it as a misdemeanor mitigated by duress, worthy of at most a year incarceration, fine and some community service
    Are we talking ...
    A. no jail time $500 to $1000 fine plus 100 hours of community service.
    B. 6 months to a yr incarceration, $5000 to 25,000 and maybe 300 hours of community service.
    C. 1 year incarceration, $10,000 to 50,000 in fines, and 500 hours of community service

    Or a serious crime requiring judges to throw a heavier book
    A . 18 months to 5 years
    B. 5 years to twenty of confinement
    C. 15 years to life
    D. Would you call abortion an aggravating factor of first degree murder, and demand either a life sentence or the death penalty?

    If there is a 'seeking or attempting an abortion' crime for those who never had the procedure what are its penalties?

    Do you see a conviction of abortion, going towards their habitual offender status under Three Strikes law?
    .
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We aren't talking about that in this thread.
    We are talking about the punishment that Pro-Choicers agree with.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to be misinterpreting what I said.
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was stating that as fact, knowing people that wanted to adopt
     
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe government should begin offering some optional third plan that is half-way between being a paid foster family and adoption.

    Where the family would get just a little bit of money to help support the child, but the family would have fewer permanent rights over that child.

    Maybe we could even alter the law to allow these children to work part-time to help pay for being in one of these "semi-adopted" families.
    I think conservatives would definitely be willing to allow this law, since it might even reduce the amount of illegal immigration a bit.

    For disabled children, the family who adopts should get money, since these children are much harder to place into adoption.

    But all this is a separate discussion topic. Once again, FreshAir, you have taken us off topic.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    make children work to be adopted? that type of practice ended ages ago
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why not?
    If it helps more children be adopted. Would probably be better for the children than remaining in a foster family, if those children can't find someone willing and able to adopt them.
     
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    cause that is basically slavery
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
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  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It would be the child's choice of course, if they wanted to be adopted. (There are many reasons that might be preferable to them)
    I think we are going way off topic, and if you'd like to discuss this more, we should probably start a new thread discussion somewhere else.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    all they have to do is agree to be a slave and they can maybe have loving parents?
     
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  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wouldn't the alternative to that, the current situation according to you, involving them NOT having loving parents?

    I thought you were a pro-choicer. Aren't you in favor of the child choosing?

    Or is giving them that choice a form of exploitation? Hmm...
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    no excuse for slavery - we can do better then that

    you act like that is the only choice

    how about making it a crime to sell children
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
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  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You idealistic progs are all the same. You refuse to allow any solution because you claim a better one exists. Even though the first proposed solution is better than the status quo, and your proposed solution is much less likely to ever get implemented.

    Why do you refuse to consider a solution just because it is not exactly what you want? That solution is still an improvement, compared to how things are.


    You yourself have just admitted that choice can be slavery.
    Interesting, isn't it? Kind of like those women who were pushed into abortion even though that wasn't really what they wanted.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t heard about anyone rounding up random women and marching them into abortion clinics
     
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  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    You want to bring back child slavery?
    upload_2022-5-20_20-24-57.jpeg
     
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