Things which could exist in a world without atheism

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Black Irish, Oct 30, 2021.

  1. Blues63

    Blues63 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are talking to an atheist whose personal philosophy is centered upon stoicism. I know what is right and what is wrong and I employ this whenever I face an ethical dilemma that challenges my core values. I don't see any reason to believe in the existence of gods and the afterlife, and no one has ever been able to demonstrate to me the existence of said abstracts. When I was Christian, one line had an effect upon me, and one doesn't require a faith in the supernatural to abide by it, and that is Matthew 22:39, love one another as you love yourself.

    This line says so little, yet so much.
     
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  2. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Cool. I thought I was misreading it because I know you from your posts to be very accommodating and accepting. And it seemed so out of character. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding.
     
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  3. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Well that’s refreshing.
    yeah but there is no way for a human to comply with his works. That is what the Kingdom Of Israel showed. It’s a combination of having faith, pursuing accurate knowledge and doing your best to act as Christ would all the while knowing that you will fail.
     
  4. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    If some of your children consistently break all your rules for the entire length of their lives, wreck your home, beat your servants, and show no remorse, no shame, no contrition, and no repentance, and completely exhaust all of your patience and mercy in spite of your repeated exhortations and warnings. Wouldn't you kick them out?
     
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I cited Matthew 25:31-end. That is a quote of Jesus. You should address that quote.

    Beyond that, I doubt you see me as being like god. And, you should know I don't have servants.

    BTW: If my kids behave like that, it is a clear sign of MY failure.
     
  6. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    delete
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2022
  7. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I did address it. Jesus is God. We are his offspring. And for you to say that some of his offsprings love of evil is his fault, ignores not only their choices and love of evil, but those of his children who love and obey him and who stand in stark testimony against your accusation. God made you too btw.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, that's not what my biblical cite of Jesus is about.

    It doesn't talk about evil.

    It says that those who fail to seek out and attend to the needs of those in prison, of foreigners, of those in poor houses, those in hospitals, etc., are going to hell, even if they believe in him.

    It is a requirement that one not just refrain from evil, but commit to actively doing good.
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe god created an environment in which the singularity that started this universe occurred.

    From there, humans came about due to abiogenesis followed by evolution.
     
  10. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    He is referring to those who heard his gospel and were made whole and free. And yet did not share it with others. For instance, he commands us to forgive so that we might be freed from the prison of unforgiveness and from the dungeons in our souls in which we hold the memory of others who trespassed against us, captive. And free us from the vain labor of the maintenance of the horrid matter. So we free our prisoners and free ourselves. We are to repent of pride and all other sins and become teachable, thus inclined to patience and faith, rather than constant complaint. Not to mention being thankful for freedom springing from forgiving. We are counseled to seek God and be baptized by those having authority. We are counseled first to love God with all our hearts, mind, and soul. And second, to love our fellow man as ourselves. First in the love of God that by his increase and entreatment, we learn to love our fellow man more, as they are us. Otherwise we degrade as do all things not freshened.

    But if you know these things and do not relay them. And instead teach another gospel. Then what have you done but to have left your fellows bereft, and sent them on strange paths. If you know that Jesus Christ is the savior, then why say it is not scientifically proven, and thus pander to the adversary in the postponement of inevitability. There will come a reckoning.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't cover the requirement in Matthew 25.
     
  12. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Actually yes it does, because it is the spirit of the matter which sets the stage for the follow up, which is to see to others physical needs. Jesus Christ came for our eternal salvation, not our temporal lives. He said it'd be easier for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. It is about ones heart and spirit, not ones physical well being.
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 25:31-end is a very clear quote.

    Let's remember that Jesus told the rich man to sell his possessions and give them to the poor. And, in Matthew he tells his followers if they are not seeking out those in need and giving them the aid they need, Christians will be headed for hell.

    I know Christians don't like that. It's a stark message.

    I respect that message, by the way.
     
  14. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    That's odd because you began this tangent by suggesting that the passage proves that God is a mean person. Now you extol his virtue?
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I've not said god was a mean person.

    Jesus is well reported to have lived a life on Earth exemplified by loving care of despised foreigners, harlots, the poor, those in prison, those sick, etc. His ire was reserved for the prelates who lived off the believers of the day.

    We have all those problems today. We have white supremacists. We have deep hatred of those not born with the common bodily configurations. We have lethal hate over issues such as skin color, country of origin, religion, etc. We have healthcare for those who can pay. We have a majority making so little income that they are exempt from taxes. Etc., Etc.

    The fact that God backs up what Jesus said with a promise of hell for the disobedient is somewhat of a different issue. Remember that Christians believe that the majority of human beings are damned to eternal hell. It's not as if this punishment for the disobedient Christians is exceptional.
     
  16. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Atheism & theism are not the issue. The issue is genetics. We're all animals with animal instincts as a result of our pre-programming when we're born. They are in place to ensure our survival & procreation...nothing more.

    People do things because they feel like doing them --- that is, because it gives them pleasure or the expectation of pleasure, without exception. They have no control over their preferences whether it be sexual, or what foods, clothing, housing, location, colors, music, etc. that they prefer. These preferences arise out of our programming.

    Later embedding into this programming is environmental programming from family, peers, culture & society. But these are all a social extrapolation of our genetic programming --- an inevitable consequence of being a highly social/gregarious species.

    What we CAN do is make an effort to transcend some of our animal instincts (programming) that are no longer needed. We no longer need to fight, kill, impregnate as many females as possible, rape, assert our dominance, impose our will on others, or compete for territory with others to survive & procreate. All that is required is to simply cooperate with one another, just as indigenous groups have done so for 100,000+ years, and thrived.

    Yes...it also means we don't need a monetary system, nor a governing/ruling body. In fact, money is something humans never needed, but was invented as a means to better dominate & control others (per our programming to acquire & defend territories/resources for survival). In order to retain power/control over the masses, governments/leaders in the modern era still exploit this animal programming in people to brainwash them with nationalist/patriotic/flag-waving propaganda. Along with this comes religious propaganda which exploits human fears that arise out of the promotion of ignorance. Added to the agenda of domination & control of the masses is scientific, medical, educational & history, sports, economics, socio-cultural, and political propaganda. The common denominator throughout this agenda of control is the promotion of fear, hate & zenophobia as a means to undermine those deemed to pose a threat to the elite's rule. Thus it is the most animalistic members of our monetary/capitalist society that reach the top --- the same people one would deem the most sociopathic & pyschopathic members of society. Such people are a minority, but are the most ambitious, ruthless, and most willing to do what it takes to climb to the top of the food chain. They can only do so through the acquisition of money/wealth, and it takes only a few of them to cause a lot of damage. Hence the reason why white collar crime is the most destructive & worst of all crimes that impact the entire planet & its lifeforms.

    So one could say it is the marriage between our uncontrolled mammalian genetics and the monetary/capitalist system that is the source of all our problems. If we CANNOT transcend our obsolete instincts, then we have no business implementing a system as destructive as the monetary system. On the other hand, if we CAN transcend our obsolete instincts, we would naturally have no use for a monetary system. Either way, no society, primitive or advanced, has any need for a monetary system.

    With that said, atheism & theism arise from a misunderstanding of the true nature of Reality and our place in it.

    All is One. That's all you need to understand and which answers our deepest & most meaningful questions of existence.
     

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