Is there a right to abortion, and if so, where does the right come from?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Talon, May 6, 2022.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It begins in absolute sense, follow the science. And we are CREATED with our fundamental rights they are not granted by government, read the DoI, and yes twins in the womb are entirely separate human beings sometimes one even dies. I don't care what uneducated people believed thousands of years ago.
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Depends on what you are thinking and what you do about it. But in this case yea I have known men and women who believed it was OK to lie to their spouse.

    What about abortion makes it a tragedy? What makes an "unviable" human being "unviable" and why no right to live the minute before viability but rights the minute after. Can a doctor tell you the minute that viability occurs with any unborn baby?
     
  3. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much yep.
     
  4. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    You're conveniently ignoring that the term child isn't a legal term and a zygote is no child. More over, persons have a right over their bodies. We don't confer the right of personhood onto the unborn. Never have. There is no basis for that.
     
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  5. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    No one can know viability in every case because there are too many variables. There's no legal answer.

    But I think there are lots of other questions you should add to your list.

    1) If the claim that the constitution doesn't provide a right to abortion, where in the constitution is life declared sacred? It can be legally taken in many other instances, and those are PERSONS, not just potential human life but actual living, breathing people whose lives we can legally end.
    2) What is the outcome on the parents, the child, and their family of forcing people to raise a child they don't want?
    3) Who's going to pay for all these unwanted children? Our foster system is a mess and there aren't enough people willing to adopt as it stands

    It's great you're all about protecting the unborn, but that responsibility continues until they are capable of supporting themselves. Children are dependent, physically at first on their mothers, and then socially dependent until, I mean there's no defined age there really. Are you and those who support banning abortion going to solve those problems and take on that cost? Why should others be asked to? You can't just make sure a baby is born and then abandon it to fend for itself, babies don't pull themselves up by their own boot straps very well.
     
  6. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    A person is a baby? Hohhhh-Kayyyyyy.
     
  7. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Right. The notion that personhood and rights begin at conception is indisputably absurd. It would imply that internal twins have as much right to life as the person whose body they parasitize, and that any woman who has a miscarriage should be charged with manslaughter. It's just stupid, evil, irrational filth with no basis in fact, logic, or morality.
     
  8. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No it isn't. The fetus shares the woman's bloodstream. The blood-brain barrier also separates a person's bloodstream from their brain, but that doesn't make the brain a separate person.
    Sometimes the woman's immune response DOES kill it.
    Nope. It's just to facilitate reproduction.
    An internal twin is not. You are just objectively wrong.
     
  9. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No it does not, and I know the science far better than you.
    Where does it say a fertilized egg cell is a person with rights?
    <yawn> Google "internal twin" and start reading.
    Every educated person was aware of the fact as little as 100 years ago.
     
  10. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Um.. had we had the fetal human called a parasite in this thread? Wonder what the record is for stating that on and hunderds of other threads on this subject.
    Fetus in an individual human, whether it lives or not should be by the natual process, not by unnatural science and procedures.
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Obviously not embryology teaches that the life begins at conception as I learned in my basic courses when I majored in biology. What is the purpose of the placenta and uterus?

    The second paraagraph

    No need but if you have something to say about it say it.

    Educated in social studies may have thought they knew that but no in science.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You just failed biology 101. What is the purposenof the placenta and uterus?

    The brain is a part of a being in this case a human being and without that bloodstream supplying nutrients and oxygen and removing waste and co2 the brain dies and the person dies.

    Yes if there is a leakage and the mothers blood enters the babies it can kill the baby. So what?

    And keep the mother and child separated.

    Yes an internal twin is a separate person.
     
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    A person is an individual human being at any stage of their life.
     
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  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is no science answer it is a made up concept to justify killing an innocent human being.

    It is related so in our founding document the DoI. The Constitution spells out that ONLY by a jury of your peers on conviction of a capital crime, the taking of another persons life, can the government sanction you with a capital punishment.

    No one forces them to raise the child.
    Or adoption systems have an abundance of families begging to adopt new born babies.

    I raised one of my own and two adopted children so don't for a second profess to be able to tell me what are the responsibilities of raising children.
     
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  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Pretty much nope.
     
  16. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Science.. a human fetus is a human individual. So that line of argument is as DEAD as little PP victims.
     
  17. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevant.
     
  18. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here's what a lot of pro-choice proponents say, I wouldn't abort my child.



    Here's what they don't say, an unbalanced percentage of the aborted babies are black (hence the loving libs opinion, and argument, that the little black babies will be unwanted, abused, born to a crackhead, and unadoptable.)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  19. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No... your reply is irrelevant.
     
  20. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Nope, sorry.
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    There is a right to both and it can be regulated by the tate so long as the regulation is rationally related to a legitimate state interest and fashioned by our elected representatives.
    Fake news. The elected representative legislatures are made up of whoever the voters chose, and women are NOT underrepresented among voters.
    It's appalling that in 21st century America you would engage is such blatant religious bigotry.
    If you think the Legislature has illegitimately encroached on your rights, then haul their asses into Court. You'll get a fair hearing.

    Pelosi’s archbishop orders her to stop receiving communion over abortion; Napa bishop concurs.

    [​IMG]
    She supports the slaughter of full term infants even while in the delivery process.​

    Her extremist views are unconscionable. A normal human being watching a delivery if filled with protective impulses to guard that vulnerable life with every fiber of their being, this old dried up hag supports plunging a scissors into its skull as long as it hasn't fully cleared all of the vagina. Vile.

    She's No Longer Fit For Eucharist:
    "Exercising his authority as prelate of San Francisco, Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone proclaimed that Nancy Pelosi’s support for unlimited abortion at all stages of gestation prevents her from legitimately receiving communion in the Catholic Church. Cordileone demanded that Pelosi repudiate and repent for “the grave evil she is perpetrating.”

    I fully agree. May she come to her senses and do the good work of repentance.

    "Pelosi’s position on abortion has become only more extreme over the years, especially in the last few months. Just earlier this month she once again, as she has many times before, explicitly cited her Catholic faith while justifying abortion as a “choice,” this time setting herself in direct opposition to Pope Francis: “The very idea that they would be telling women the size, timing or whatever of their family, the personal nature of this is so appalling, and I say that as a devout Catholic”; “They say to me, ‘Nancy Pelosi thinks she knows more about having babies than the Pope.’ Yes I do. Are you stupid?”

    "After numerous attempts to speak with her to help her understand the grave evil she is perpetrating, the scandal she is causing, and the danger to her own soul she is risking, I have determined that the point has come in which I must make a public declaration that she is not to be admitted to Holy Communion unless and until she publicly repudiate her support for abortion “rights” and confess and receive absolution for her cooperation in this evil in the sacrament of Penance. I have accordingly sent her a Notification to this effect, which I have now made public."

    And that's the key, in Christian doctrine, the taking of communion in an unworthy manner can be very dangerous and have terrible consequences. These actions are not taken lightly and they are to protect Nancy from harm. It's always the restoration of the wayward that guides these grave decisions.

    "Please know that I find no pleasure whatsoever in fulfilling my pastoral duty here. Speaker Pelosi remains our sister in Christ. Her advocacy for the care of the poor and vulnerable elicits my admiration. I assure you that my action here is purely pastoral, not political. I have been very clear in my words and actions about this. Speaker Pelosi has been uppermost in my prayer intentions ever since I became the Archbishop of San Francisco. It was my prayer life that motivated me to ask people all around the country to join me in praying and fasting for her in the “Rose and Rosary for Nancy Campaign.” I especially pray that she will see in the roses she has received a sign of the honest love and care that many thousands of people have for her."

    Amen.

    Pelosi just pushed a bill through the House that allowed the slaughter of fully formed infants that had not completely cleared the womb, which is simply murder. Worse, is would allow employers to force conscientious objectors to do the killing! "That push to radically expand abortions across the United States was the last straw for Cordileone."

    "Pelosi has a second home in Santa Rosa, and the bishop there plans to honor Cordileone’s declaration."

    To be clear, this is church discipline, not excommunication.
     
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  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Human beings are irrelevent now?
     
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  23. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Technically a freshly fertilized human egg cell is a "human being". Yes, that's irrelevant to if we should consider them our equals, worthy of the same human rights, etc.
     
  24. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    (There are too many comments to read them all, so apologies if others have already pointed this out.)

    There is no right to abortion, specifically. The 4th Amendment, which factored into the Roe v Wade decision, is about personal privacy. I can think of nothing more private than my body. Other SCOTUS decisions that apply to all states have been based on the same constitutional law, such as Loving v Virginia, which says that whites and blacks could intermarry in the state of Virginia, and the other states must legally recognize those unions.

    As for implementing the decision on a national scale, Section 1 of the 14th Amendment was applied ... those words that many on the right dislike, "No state shall ..."
     
  25. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    to the Left, and I believe they are creating more sociopaths and psychopaths to render all their enemies "irrelevant"
     

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