Who should be CRIMALLY punished for having an abortion?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Turin, Jun 24, 2022.

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Who should be CRIMALLY punished for having an abortion?

  1. The woman

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. The Doctor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. The woman and the doctor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. The woman, doctor, and anyone else who helped pay or provide assistance.

    4 vote(s)
    20.0%
  5. No one should be punished.

    16 vote(s)
    80.0%
  1. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    If a woman goes and has an abortion. Who should be punished?
     
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  2. Big Richard

    Big Richard Banned

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    Just like in all murders anyone and everyone who had a part should be looking at prison
     
  3. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    If you believe that abortion is murder. Do you also think that it should be legal to kill doctors who perform abortions?

    Its totally legal to kill someone else in the effort to prevent a murder.

    For example, if I am about to cut someones throat, and you pull out a gun and shoot me dead on the spot. preventing a malicious murder. You would be legally in the right here.

    Why shouldnt that same rational apply to abortion doctors? If you TRUELY believe that abortion is murder.

    DISCLAIMER: I do not, and will never promote violence or murder of anyone. Thats not my intent in making this argument.
     
  4. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Why the hypothetical? In states with laws that ban, those conditions are already known. Or didn't you take the time to read them? The law already defines what you ask. Take the time to read it.
     
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  5. Big Richard

    Big Richard Banned

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    No
     
  6. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Why not? If abortion is murder. What changes the logic here? Im genuinely curious.
     
  7. Big Richard

    Big Richard Banned

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    a first offense 10 years.
    Second 25 years
    Third execution
     
  8. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    For whom? The abortion doctor? Or someone who kills an abortion doctor in self deffense of a "baby" ( I put that in quotes because I dont believe that life begins at conception )
     
  9. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You left out “Trump”!
     
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  10. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is one of the funnier tanTrumps I have seen. I do enjoy the humor, but it always puzzled me why people that don't like him act like him.
     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I cannot choose any of your options in your poll..... because the most guilty people, in my opinion..... are pretty much at the top...... they tend to believe in the economic philosophy of Malthusian Catastrophe Theory and neo-Malthusian thought..... and they have been using their BigMedia and their bought out political leaders to promote deceiving women into choosing to have an abortion due to the economic pressure that they have put on women...... to make them feel that that is their best option under their set of circumstances?!

    Can we learn about the Washington Swamp from the Ottawa Swamp?

    Here are the statistics for deaths among African Americans since 1973:
    Abortion............15.5 million
    Heart disease.....2,715, 416
    Cancer ...............2,568,040
    Accidents ..............447,803
    Violent crimes .......354,392
    AIDS .....................245,322





    I believe that this was set up.......
    and something happened here in Canada back in 1974 that made this trend possible in the USA.





    Here is one of the major reasons why Canadian women feel pressured into having an abortion. They feel that our economic situation leaves them with really no choice other than to take the risk of living in relative poverty along with their child. This situation has been forced on them and we need to be more well informed about this.


    After P. M. Pierre E. Trudeau's colossal error here is how the national debt of
    Canada spiralled out of control:

    [​IMG]

    My guess is that he was pressured into doing this so that the same thing could be
    arranged in the USA:


    [​IMG]

    Many wealthy people believe that the only way to keep the lower class working
    hard is to keep them head over heels in debt and kind of hungry. Lower class people choosing to have an abortion is a positive thing in the minds of a lot of people who consider themselves to be the ELITE!

    https://www.michaeljournal.org/articles/social-credit/item/the-public-debt-problem?/plenty34.htm
    The Public-Debt Problem




    Here is how I explained this back in 2006 when I campaigned for the office of M. L. A. as an independent:

    From 1940 to 1974 the Government of Canada put roughly half of the total money supply into the economy through loans issued through the federally owned Bank of Canada. Provincial and municipal governments could borrow the money to build roads, schools, hospitals and sewage treatment facilities at zero or one percent interest. In 1974 we changed our system and since that time a higher and higher percentage of all government debt is financed through loans issued through privately owned banks. At this time it is ninety eight percent. This policy may be great for our banking sector but it was estimated that in the one year of 1995 alone our federal government could have saved roughly SIXTY FIVE BILLION DOLLARS in interest payments if we had gone back to creating half the total money supply through these low interest rate loans issued through the bank that is OWNED BY ALL CANADIANS.

    Considering that our deficit was approximately thirty billion dollars for that year, simply by changing back to an already proven monetary and banking system, we could theoretically have had a FEDERAL BUDGET SURPLUS OF THIRTY FIVE BILLION DOLLARS in 1995.


    The massive cutbacks in the Canadian military, in health care, highway construction, social programs and education were profoundly affected by these accounting practices?

    So what can you and I do about this problem?

    My 2006, 2008, 2016 and 2004 campaign writings as ART.

    .....
    The plan to use economic pressure to increase the probability of women choosing to have an abortion got ramped up here in Canada in 1974.... one year after Roe vs Wade was passed in the United States.

    WE ARE NOT DEALING HERE WITH STUPID PEOPLE WHO CANNOT PREDICT THE BEHAVIOR OF THE MAJORITY OF HUMANS... WITHIN A CERTAIN SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!


     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
  12. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    I am asking what peoples opinions are, not what individual state laws say.

    Or didnt you lrn 2 reed?
     
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  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I forwarded this conversation to several groups and got back this brilliant reply.

    For the record...near death experiencer Ms. Ariela Solsol Periera met her deceased children during her brush with death and they did not want vengeance or condemnation for their mom.

     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
  14. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    The law is the law. The question has already been resolved in the law in those states that define it. Perhaps a better approach would be to discuss those laws, instead of trying to stoke emotionalism. Do you actually know the law? it sure doesn't look like it.
     
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  15. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Got it. You lack basic comprehensive reading skills. This poll isnt for you then.
     
  16. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Why? The law is already established. If you want to discuss who is indictable in a specific law, we can discuss. Why make it hypothetical when real examples are available? And wouldn't it be a better discussion then because we are discussing what is actually on the books, rather than guessing?
     
  17. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I hate to be pedantic but it depends on the law, doesn't it? If you're in New York or California you can have an abortion or kill a newborn and no one will be punished. In Mississipi or Missouri someone would be punished.

    My opinion is that those in California, New York, and Colorado and can have abortions for nine months and then some should quit running around acting like hysterical mental patients. People in states where abortions might become illegal should be working to modify their state laws. Leftists should realize that violence and threats of violence have had their day and are done as a political strategy.

    There is no question the 1974 decision of Roe vs. Wade was a travesty and there is nothing in the Constitution, which many hate, that would make abortion a Constitutional Right or an interest of the Federal Government. That bad decision has simply been corrected.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  18. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Then why be pedantic? It's an opinion poll. You obviously, like drluggit, don't have an opinion on who should the guilty be if laws are broken or are afraid to give it.
     
  19. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    My guess is they are just afraid to say they want to punish women.
     
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  20. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    As I have already posted, it makes no sense to create a crime resulting in someone' death, and not prosecute everyone who is knowingly committing it, or facilitating its commission. Depending on how you write the statute, you can create an agravating version, and a a variety of levels of involvment and define the elements of them however you choose, but if this is akin to homocide, then you have someone paying someone doing the' hit' for them, and the 'hitman' who is getting paid, and others as co-conspirators or aiding and abetting either before or after the fact. That would be analogous. At the very least, this is an act of depraved indifference with malice aforethought or wanton murder which constitutes second or third degree homocide in some states.

    Its hard to come up with any analogy that treats this like a moving traffic violation, or a misdeomeanor for the woman who helps plan the death as a co-conspirator, facilitates its commission, and helps pay someone for the service. A $500 fine and some community service, just does not cut it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
  21. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    If we believe that no one owns a woman's body but THAT individual woman, then no one has committed a 'crime' (and I'm a solid, right-wing Conservative)!

    We on the Right are really shooting ourselves in both feet with this whole abortion thing....
     
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  22. kcres

    kcres Newly Registered

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    Abortion is a Human Rights issue. Abortion is a medical discussion between a woman and her doctor and has no place in legislative chambers full of medically ignorant men, forcing their religious beliefs on others, who think of women as being subservient to them, are trying to take us back to a time when women were chattel.
     
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  23. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    I wont disagree with that. Its going to cost you guys in the mid terms I think.
     
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  24. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I see you're 'newly-registered', so, welcome aboard! And don't be too surprised if you find out that a lot of the right-wing, Conservative faction here AGREES with you about the abortion issue. A lot us (and me in particular) think that a woman's body and everything in it belongs to HER and nobody but HER....
     
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