Abortion ban amendment shot down in Kansas doesn't bode well for Repubss

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    But the right to travel is not in the Constitution, is it?

    Be careful how you answer this BTW
     
  2. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    I think you misread what I wrote, at the same time, I misspoke about the Florida Abortion Ban as well.

    What that I am disagreeing is that women are not "free to choose" to have an abortion whether in Florida, Texas, and the states that have banned abortion, some very restrictively. In Mississippi, there are no abortion clinics anymore. The last one shut down in July 2022. Thus women, especially poor women do not have any "choice" anymore and traveling will be difficult for an abortion, much less a family vacation somewhere in the state. Second, MS has the highest infant mortality rate in the country and is dead last in the country for measurement of healthcare access to women and children, and is last to health system performance. Overall, if you live in MS and get sick, a person needs to go somewhere else. Finally, MS has enacted "TRAP" laws to target physicians and facilities. It is nice they decided to do something for 15 weeks, but not exactly sure the effectiveness of the law for a woman to choose in the state of MS.

    Furthermore, MS has previous laws on the books. Unless this current law, the Dobbs law replaces all those other laws, then the "trigger mechanism" will go into effect. Those previous laws do not allow access or allow abortion under any circumstances. It is thus going to be legally confusing with different laws on the books with different varying degrees of abortion ban from the newest to the oldest law on the books.

    https://states.guttmacher.org/policies/mississippi/abortion-policies
     
  3. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Fake News, I understood it perfectly.
    In MS they have 15 weeks, unrestricted, to get an abortion which is more permissive than Roe, most of Europe, all of France and nearly the rest of the world. If you cannot see that that is a very reasonable and permissive pro-choice standard then you likely hold a very extreme view on this issue that is unlikely to match the legal standard in a Representative Democracy such as America.
    It will not 'confuse' anyone with a normal IQ. The law that the Dobbs court refused to strike is the controlling legal standard in MS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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  4. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    They have to kill a human life to end a pregnancy.
     
  5. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    That's complete and utter bullshit. And I'm pro-life.

    What happened is that the Supreme Court ruled on a case, correctly in my opinion, that due to legal technicalities, abortion is in fact not a Constitutional Right. But, but... It's "just" a technicality. Well, yes. Ruling on legal and Constitutional technicalities is what Courts DO. They do not (or at least should not) take into account what any polls say, what and how many demonstrators are losing their minds about, or any other factor aside from the Constitution, first and foremost, and existing laws and precedents second and third. Only the Supreme Court is empowered to ignore prior precedents, which is why the Bruen decision is going to force other Courts, like say the 9th District Court of Appeals to use the NEW standard established regarding text and history as it comes to gun laws, which is why they'll have no choice but to rule "assault weapon" bans, and magazines with more than 10 round bans as Unconstitutional, because nothing in the text of the 2A or history of its enforcement has done those things until very recently. That doesn't count.

    I do however think that properly argued, there is a VERY good case to be made that abortion would be protected under the 9th and 10th Amendments, but since nobody made such an argument, the Court can't pretend they did, even if they agree with my statement. Their rulings are very narrow, and only address points raised in briefs and/or oral arguments, not a fantasy situation that some guy on the internet (me) came up with somewhat after the fact.

    So, we're going to have some States make stupid rules about abortion, and women are either going to have to act quickly (for States that use the 6-week "heartbeat" test (which isn't even a heartbeat as there is not yet a heart, it's just cells that eventually may be a heart starting to twitch like one), or to take a short vacation to a State with more permissive rules. But that's not as hard or expensive as it used to be.

    The best option for women is to get the Plan-B pills prescribed remotely and sent via US Mail, and since the feds control that, if they don't prohibit sending those meds, they can be sent anywhere. Now, I think (anyone who may be more knowledgeable than me, please correct me if I'm wrong) that they must be taken within 5 days or so, but let's keep it real... A woman knows when a man, be it her husband or some stranger who's name she doesn't even know, has blown a load of baby-making juice inside her baby-making canal. Women don't get pregnant EVERY TIME that happens, it only works during certain days during her cycle, but there's no downside to taking the pills anytime that happens, and she doesn't want to make a baby.

    Meantime, people need to use condoms everytime they have sex but don't want to make a baby, it really does work to prevent such an event. This is trebly true in the black "community" where it's simply rarely done, without a single F given, especially by a hookup possible baby daddy.

    I have zero problems with hookups just for the fun of having some stranger sex. It's something I've done hundreds, possibly a thousand times or more. But with only one or two well-thought-out exceptions (ex., I know the person well, and know she can't get pregnant in any event), I have used a condom every single time and made precisely zero babies.

    But I'm drifting off topic... What "the Republicans" are saying about the ruling is mostly true. Based on the Constitution, the law, and the arguments made in the case, it was properly decided. Yes, on a technicality, but that's the whole point of having Courts in the first place. The fact that your DNA was found on a murder weapon is also a technicality, but it's one that'll get you a new 8x10 home for life.

    Even Ginsburg thought Roe was improperly decided.
     
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  6. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    That they do.

    Women will deal with the matter individually. They will not cede control over their lives to the government. You can't pass a law restricting abortion they'll obey. Law itself is brought into disrepute.
     
  7. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    I've never advocated for any abortion laws at all, either for or against. I advocate for moral behavior. Religion and morality alone will create a good and stable society. Anything else will lead to perversity, corruption, and violence. We need to listen to great men of our history, great men such as John Adams.

    https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/20...n-virtuous-enough-be-free-terrence-p-jeffrey/

    Will America Remain Virtuous Enough to Be Free?

    "The foundations of national morality must be laid in private families," Adams went on to say in this same diary entry.

    "In vain are schools, academies, and universities instituted, if loose principles and licentious habits are impressed upon children in their earliest years," he said. "The mothers are the earliest and most important instructors of youth ... The vices and examples of the parents cannot be concealed from the children. How is it possible that children can have any just sense of the sacred obligations of morality and religion if, from their earliest infancy, they learn that their mothers live in habitual infidelity to their fathers, and their fathers in as constant infidelity to their mothers."

    "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by ... morality and religion," said President Adams. "Avarice, ambition (and) revenge or galantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net.

    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people," he said. "It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  8. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. You will not find the "right to travel" explicitly enumerated in our Constitution. But, a citizen cannot be denied the right to travel because the right to travel is a fundamental part of his liberty, and THAT is protected by the 5th amendment. There is Supreme Court case law supporting that fact.
    Why would anyone who seeks truth need to 'be careful' about how to answer a question? I am not here to be tested or tricked by you, or anyone else. I am not here to "win". I am here to learn, and where I can, to teach. Only those who are here defending narratives and partisan propaganda need to 'be careful' about how they answer questions. I seek truth, so if you offer enlightenment, then I welcome it.
     
  9. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you convince people, you csn change behavior.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  10. Fred68

    Fred68 Well-Known Member

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    I think that's called nitpicking.

    Warning, this link might scare you:

    A List of Trump Endorsements in 2022 — And How They've Fared (marketrealist.com)

    So far, every House candidate that Trump endorsed won, and only a few senatorial candidates lost.

    Ouch!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  11. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, as prescribed by law.
     
  12. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    We already had that.
     
  13. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Yep.
     
  14. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    They don't matter to the millions of affected women. Roe served America, there was no need to repeal it, even though it wasn't as perfect as RGB would have liked. No moderate court would have repealed Roe, and Chief Justice Roberts tried in vain to get the hard liners to not repeal it and just uphold Dobbs, but no, they had to go a step further and repeal Roe altogether. Moreover, if it could be better, then why didn't the court correct it? NO, it just repealed it. All this talk about it not being perfect is a lot of horse manure and a ruse for the real effort, they want to ban abortion. By repealing roe, at least they will allow it to be banned in all the red states or most of them. That was their agenda because they new they had to pay the piper, the Federalist Society that got them in office, got the millions from donors that promoted them and conservative judges to the Senate.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/leonard-leo-federalists-society-courts/

    That fact that the court took a right once granted away, that's all that matters to the affected, and there are millions who will vote next november.

    Count on it.
     
  15. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    they won in the primaries. Hard liners and radicals win primaries easily. but not generals where moderates are voting in greater numbers.

    Let's see them win in November.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  16. Fred68

    Fred68 Well-Known Member

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    [It is a] fundamental maxim of republican government, which requires that the sense of the majority should prevail. --Alexander Hamilton, Federalist #22

    Frankly, I think the Convention's compromise of giving each state the same number of senators was a good idea. It minimizes the chance of mob rule.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  17. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Imagine if the Democrats realize the same about their ranks and the country somehow dumps the extremes on both ends? Naw, that's not going to happen ever.
     
  18. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Every law regulates liberty.
     
  19. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    You aren't religious but you use the "at conception" line? If so you are the first not-religious person I have seen do so. You equate a freshly fertilized egg cell morally to a baby just before or after birth?
     
  20. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Ever notice nobody calls themself pro-death or anti-choice?
     
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  21. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    That's not accurate.
    Liberty doesn't mean you can violates other peoples rights.

    You don't understand law if you think that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  22. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    How about pro castle doctrine?
     
  23. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    All laws regulate somebody's freedom. Your freedom to swing your first stops at my nose.
     
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  24. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Never heard of it.
     
  25. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Does not surprise me.

    Hence the point of the castle doctrine.
     

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