80% of new IRS revenue will come from small businesses earning under $200K: tax experts

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by doombug, Aug 14, 2022.

  1. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    But @Alwayssa assures us.... it's great!!

    Oh yea of little faith!
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
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  3. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    It is just the Build Back Better crap repackaged.
     
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  4. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It shows the profound levels of gullibility it takes to believe that they are exempt from the mighty army of auditors hired to strengthen their grip on working people. This will disproportionately affect the poor and middle class.

    BTW, tax code/laws are so voluminous and complicated, everyone likely commits tax fraud without knowing it.
     
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  5. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    I am well aware of what the rebate is. But what I am doing is asking particulars. How will the rebate be calculated? Or is it some random number by the state picked randomly like a quick pick six lottery ticket?

    And the answer is, in realistic terms, is prior year. That is fine, but what happens if the first year your income is $20k with a rebate of 7k, and the current year, the year you receive the rebate, the income is 90k and the rebate is only $1k in reality. You do realize you are taxable for the 6k. Right? In accounting and tax terms, this is called a recovery. And this is generally taxable in most states that rely heavily on the sales tax for state revenue, like Texas and Florida for instance. Second, it is not always that easy to choose whether you will have kids or not. The moment you have sex with any person who is able to bear children is the risk of that person getting pregnant. There are natural and manmade ways to prevent or mitigate pregnancy, but the GOP wants to eliminate the manmade ways altogether. And that means most people are not disciplined enough, not even conservatives, to adhere to the natural way to mitigate pregnancy, which is not 100% effective either. In essence, and murphy's law, if you and another person who can get pregnant copulate, the chances are good that the person who can get pregnant may get pregnant, which will be an "unplanned" pregnancy. Then the next decision will be next and up to both of you.

    In the current tax system, having kids allows you to have certain credits from the dependent credit to the child tax credit if the kid is under 17 and meets the other requirements and even the additional child tax credit. The expenses for the kid is called "life" such as diapers clothes every few months when the child is born and the first year, the childproofing of the home, and the list goes on. This is called life. Tax credits, or rebates help alleviate the cost. The second is that tax credits on income taxes are simpler because it is based on the current year, not the prior year, which can get complicated.
     
  6. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    You were the one who said "if you are frugal enough so it is entirely possible to pay no tax." You have have enough income to purchase the items I gave you. This is a test to see if you can pay no tax at all. Are you game?

    The problem is, the net effect may be $0 taxes, but the reality is, that even the poor will have to pay or have it withheld initially, and then wait for the rebate to be sent to them for that effect. It is to rob peter to paul sort of scheme under the FairTax. The second is, that you too will have to withhold if you pay some for services, such as mowing the lawn, replacing windows, fixing a roof, and everything else. The law is all-encompassing. At least with the income tax, most individuals are not tax reporters, like corporations are, but are taxpayers.

    As for the current system, about 50% of all individuals can do their taxes without the aid of tax preparation software or places like H&R Block and other tax preparation businesses if they read the instructions and the publications. Income taxes can get complicated, especially if you are dealing with FATCA, certain types of business transactions or methods, grouping rental activities, etc. But if this happens, that person or business definitely has a qualified CPA or two or three or four that will make sure the code is followed and all tax avoidance schemes are properly followed. Tax avoidance is the legal way to lower your taxes.

    Each type of tax system, progressive, flat, or fair, have its drawbacks and benefits. Of the three, progressive has more benefits than drawbacks.
     
  7. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the DIRTY DEMOCRATS don't want small business and mom and pop shops. They want HIGH RISES and all the LESSERS under their control begging for scraps. 4 more years of this scum running our country and our food will be air dropped sacs of grain with everyone fighting over it.
     
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  8. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    The effective tax rate of most individuals is less than 20%, more like close to $0.


    It's a logical conclusion based on the premise that people want to spend less and will do what it takes under the Fair Tax system to do so. And the more you spend, the more taxes you pay. Right?


    Don't want to pay taxes, then do the experiment. Neither your income nor what little you have will be taxed and the products you buy will not be taxed because they are necessities. Or do you think an Infiniti QX55 is a necessity item?

    BTW, if anything is a guide, HR 25, the Fair Tax Act of 2021, section 201, is any guide, let this sink in, "To tax all consumption of goods and services in the United States once, without exception, but only once." And I don't think anyone who is advocating this type of system really know what the word all means. And if you look at the act, there are no exceptions, period.
     
  9. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    That is not how it is going to work with health care. For starters, who is the final payer? The copay of $35 will be taxed at 23% to the individual obtaining and paying the copay, the patient. So, you are actually paying $35 plus $8.05, which equals $43.05. Under the current rules, it is $35 copay. If the doctor's visit cost $100, the insurance claim will be filed by the doctor's office, not you. That is not going to change. If the insurance pays all of it, then the doctor is charged $23 for the tax because that is the final goods and services. And the insurance company will have to pay the additional cost of $23 in taxes to the insurance company. Now, that could mean that the doctor's office may raise the copay on you, or have an additional surcharge outside of the insurance that they are partnered with to help cover the cost. Or the doctor's office no longer offers the services of filing the claim on your behalf, which means, you pay the $35, plus the $100, plus the 23% on all of it. Then you file with the insurance company for any reimbursement, which creates more complexity in obtaining that refund of the taxes paid of $135.

    As for premiums, you will pay $400 plus the 23%, period. Again, a tax increase compared to what we have now.
     
  10. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    I never said it was great, but I never said it was bad either. I only said that it will not reduce inflation despite the name of the bill. But that is because my argument on inflation is that the executive or legislative branch has no control over inflation, not least in how our economy works.
     
  11. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    It certainly does have more benefits for the drug dealers and other people working under the table.
     
  12. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    No it does not. Illegal income is also taxable, but drug dealers don't generally file that income, much fewer moonshiners and anyone else who does the illegal activity. However, this is where IRS CI, the accountants with the guns come in usually if the amount is substantial. But then again, anything more than a quarter ounce on you or in your possession, you may be charged with intent to sell, and that caarres a longer sentence than a simple drug possession charge.

    But then again, what makes you think drug dealers will tax their "customers" 23% every time they purchase drugs from them? Are you that naive?
     
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I explained to you from The Fair Tax website how it will work, you don't work for them nor speak for them. I have NO REASON to believe doctors office will change their billing in the least. And again you ignore the fact that you will be paying NO income tax and NO FICA contributions so any Fair Tax will be paid with UNTAXED income.
     
  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Do illegal drug dealers pay tax on the income they derive from the illegal activities, of course not they don't file it. Will they pay tax on it under the Fair Tax, you betcha whenever they spend it on retail products and services.
     
  15. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    But I explained how the sales tax system works and you got wrong how the "final payer for goods and services" will be defined under GAAP or IFRS.
     
  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I know what are you repeating how the system taxes now? Again people will NOT be paying a 23% effective tax rate and in fact get a prebate of what a family at a certain level, the poverty level or close, would pay in any sales tax to they effectively close to 0% and it is progressive from there.


    Why they have more money to spend now. Using that logic people now don't earn as much as they could because they pay more taxes the more they earn right?



    The premise of your experiment is nonsense. Explain how it applies to The Fair TAx.

    I obviously know more about The Fair Tax than you so you can refrain from posting links to it.
     
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  17. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    That is exactly what they are doing.
     
  18. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    I’m not in the least bit surprised by this
     
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  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I explained, rather The Fair Tax foundation explained to you how their proposal will work.
     
  20. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Good. Someone in the world does.
     
  21. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    That does nothing to prove or disprove the story of the OP, which is not supported by the JCT website.
     
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  22. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not defending the OP position. My position is that allowing the IRS to grow more powerful will only disproportionately affect the poor and middle. Believing that 87K agents will only go after the rich requires profound levels of gullibility.
     
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  23. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    The effective rate will be 23% for everyone. But that's the thing about a sales tax, no matter how you define it. If you are poor, buying a new shirt for $15, you will be taxed the same way and the same amount if you are middle income buying the exact same new shirt for $15. But as prices go up, those prices may eliminate the poor person as the consumer and retain you as the consumer with now little to no substitutes in return for new shirts. Sure, you can buy used ones, for about the same price, but there is no net value in that, is there Blues? The rebate is just an accounting trick to negate that effective tax rate. The problem with the rebate is how to distribute it. based on the last digit of the SSN or based on household or based on individuals from 0 to 100 plus or some range that is yet to be determined. What you need to learn is the difference between sales tax inclusive and sales tax exclusive. So you pay first and get the rebate later. Some have proposed monthly, biweekly or semiannually, but that rebate will come after you purchase something and pay taxes.


    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/bri...ax-exclusive-and-tax-inclusive-sales-tax-rate

    If everyone has more money, then prices will go up. How much is the question, but in classical, Keynesian, and Monetarist theory of price equilibrium, prices will adjust upwards so that businesses can charge the maximum price the consumer will bear. And as prices go up, more taxes will be charged at 23%


    The premise of my experiment is how willing are you to go to not pay taxes on a FAIR Tax system. So far, you are not liking the requirements set forth by your arguments. Thus, your arguments have been debunked, period.


    Blues, you don't know **** about anything. The only thing you are doing is attempting to regurgitate what the website says, and even that you are screwing it up.
     
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  24. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    You will own nothing and be happy.
     
  25. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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    Well, if the far RW keeps forking over their hard earned dollars to the barrage of Trump begging media multiple times daily, you will at least be happy. :)
     

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