Democracy IS The Market

The problem with too much anything is that you destroy original intent. Although there are few that would dispute the need for government, too much government destroys freedom by interfering with the political market for ideas.

Over the past years, the coalition of government and corporate interests has done just this... subverted the democratic process by interfering with markets, that is, allowing ideology-driven self-interest to govern public debate.

It should be quite obvious that most of the MSM and the newer social media platforms have taken an ideological position and allowed [encouraged] censorship of dissenting opinions. This is the heart of any democracy, the exchange of ideas, the vetting of all opinions to find the ones which will result in the best outcomes.

If you allow ideology to govern free speech your democracy quickly morphs into authoritarianism and you have lost the most powerful tool you have to navigate a world so complex that you need every opinion possible [no matter how outrageous] to figure out the correct path.

America was great because we had the freedom to express ALL opinions. This must be returned to its citizens by those willing to stand up and shout, "Get out my f******* way, you lunatics. Who are you to take away my God given rights as an American citizen? Go somewhere else and start your own authoritarian Utopian paradise."

Enough of this non-sense!

 

OK you realize that battle is already lost right?

 

You're quite the optimist. No, the battle is not already lost. Believe me, once this little foray into semi-authoritarianism runs it's course, all these faux-marxist types will once again get onboard the free market express because they only care about power and money and they will soon realize that "get woke/go broke" is reality.

Ideology is non-sense no matter where it comes from. People who believe in markets do so because they have created the greatest increase in wealth the world has ever witnessed x 10,000. Markets work...in commodities, in services, and most importantly, in ideas!

This is not going to change anytime soon.

 

Well markets work whether you believe in them or not, but I wasn't referring to your market boosterism, but your idea that free speech is suddenly going to turn around and make a comeback. Currently the real problem with that isn't that things like the White House working with social media companies to deplatform opinions they don't like is happening. The problem is that it's happening with virtually no outrage among the establishment institutions that matter. If all of your institutions oppose free speech, you're not going to have it regardless of what the First Amendment says. That's where we are now.

 

Yes, it's called selling-out, and these people will get what they richly deserve.

All of this left non-sense is going away for one simple reason...IT DOESN'T WORK. The vast majority of the country understands this and correction will take place. Ours is a system that works slowly for good reason...but it works.

Once these woke corporations find that their profits are cratering because of their woke-ness [and it's already happening], things will change. Remember, ideology is used like everything else...to gain wealth and power. Once critical mass is reached, it's done.

 

GO WOKE
GO BROKE

 

"Go Woke, Go broke" is a nice slogan, but it's the exception rather than the rule. I doubt there is a single Fortune 500 corporation that isn't wedded to Woke dogma, but they aren't all going broke. More importantly for this discussion, the social media environment is as woke as it gets, and it's not going anywhere and will no doubt continue to censor and deplatform because...why not? You say it doesn't work but it seems like it it's been working pretty well for a while, and you have not yet described what is the scenario that's going to take it down.

As I said in post #2, it's over.

 

What exactly in this world is working at the moment? And what type of perspective do you have? Give it some time.

Do you really believe that serious money people are going to [after thousands of years of greed dictating human actions] adopt this bizarre woke culture that doesn't even work? Come on. People are people and human nature is what it is.

Although there have been periods in history where weird stuff goes down, it doesn't last [because why would it?]. The wokesters have nothing productive to offer anybody. It's a group temper tantrum. Like all things, it will come...and it will go.

 

Wokism is a religion. Only a tiny minority are true believers, but it's already captured every single major institution in the country, so many more have to pretend fealty to it. In time, they'll just accept it as part of their belief system, just like when Constantine, declared Christianity the state religion of the Holy Roman Empire.

 

Seriously? The next 5-10 years are going to confront those who believe they can do non-productive things with a serious wake-up call as nobody is going to be willing to throw money away on absurd pipe-dreams.

 

Democracy has no value in itself, only as a means to protecting your freedoms.

 

Government is necessary. It's not about too much or too little, it's about what the electorate wants, because that is democracy.

An unfettered market is an ideology unto itself. It's called neoliberalism.

Neoliberalism is the singular cause of the wealth gap between the rich and the poor in America. It accelerated under Reagan

To achieve the kind of market you want, that would require regulation, i.e, 'government intervention'. The market you want will not happen by itself. Left to it's own devices, free markets devolve into capital flowing into fewer and fewer hands, the rich exploiting the poor, etc.



No one is preventing you from expressing your opinion.

Not sure what your problem is.

Now that you've had your little rant, what are your policy recommendations?

 

@Patricio Da Silva

markets do not require democracy. markets can operate just as well, or better, under fascism, feudalism, communism, or theocracy. markets do not require capitalism, a relatively recent development.

markets do require law and regulation, which, since earliest times, have been provided by governments.

atandard weights and measures, consumer protection, health and safety, zoning, environmental protection, etc etc have all been around for a long time and are hallmarks of civilization NOT "aithoritarian utopia."

who do you think wants an authoritarian utopia? i have been reading your posts, and wondering what planet you inhabit.

"enough of the non-sense" impermanence.

 

I dunno, perhaps not having the government shutter all the small businesses while exempting large corporations during Covid.

Perhaps preventing Biden from not allowing small landlords to evict non-paying renters due to Covid.... resulting in the greatest transfer of real estate from the middle class to the elite in American history.

Perhaps removing government mandates for unproven vaccines that made billions for the big pharma industries that own our government and our media.

Perhaps preventing Biden from passing executive orders and signing bills that "protect the environment" by taxing the middle class and increasing their energy bills for the profit of billionaires.

Biden has ruled over the greatest wealth transfer for the working class to the elites in human history and here you are pretending that you are against such wealth transfers. I guess I am not quite understanding how you can pretend to be against the elite when you only support policies that increase their wealth and their power.

PS. Regulations are meant to increase the power of global cabals. They destroy potential competition by raising the cost of entry into the the billions.

 

Perhaps you have not considered the strong influence of WEF and its agenda? Gates, Bezos and many other 'movers and shakers' are funding and advancing that agenda, also described by the ESG agenda.

I like your spirit, but it seems you are somehow ignoring what's been going on for the last several years, including the blatant manipulation of the voting system by those inside the gates.

 

If used properly.. Democracy can also be used as a means to take away freedoms .. and this some find valuable .. contradicting the mostly correct initial premise a bit. What you mean is "No value to me".

The latter is most often misunderstood .. or not known to exist.. in the minds of most .. and in many ways .. constitutes an Elephant in the room with horns .... cause ya all kind of know its there .. just never really thought about it much.

Both Classical Liberalism and Republicanism denounce pure democracy -- law on the basis of 50+1 -- as "Tyranny of the Majority" - and in fact a constitutional republic is an attempt at a solution to this very problem. .. where again Democracy has a very specific role in protecting freedoms.. but a different role than in pure democracy .. and how many folks thought about that distinction lately ya think ?

Our current status along the "Freedom-Totalitarian" continuum is at "Tyranny of the Minority" status .. the Freedom end of the continuum in dire straits

1. Correct 2) Addressed above and democracy is not always about what the electorate wants

3) This comment is both meaningless and untrue . it is not about the ability of a single individual to speak out. it is about the ability to disseminate that opinion.

Failing to make the above distinction is fatal flaw... and demonstrates very big not understanding of how propaganda works .. and the message controlled - the understanding of which is critical to understanding Democracy .. so this is spiraling.

Without a fair and free media - there is no such thing as a functional democratic process.

 

the right wants to make everything software as a service and hardware as a service

look at Tesla as an example, you won't own anything, the corps will own it all, they will no longer have to improve as much as you pay a monthly fee for everything

 

OK so we meet back here and compare notes in ten years to see if wokism is a discredited joke or if it's still the governing philosophy of The State.

 

An example of the pervasive nature of this nonsense is in the news this morning, regarding the US Air Force Academy in Colorado. They have announced a "Fellowship" group- which excludes all cis-gender people. (Meaning people who identify themselves by their natural birth gender) Any person who actually knows and accepts who they are is not welcome in this group, and that is openly stated.
This is a gross inversion of values and priorities; indicating how far the nonsense has penetrated the institutions that the nation depends on.

 

But it should be, when it comes to policies.

The statement was directed at @impermanence, and the statement, 'no one is stopping you from expressing your opinion' is true.
.

Wasn't discussing propaganda, only his freedom of speech, which he was complaining about.

The media is freer in this country than our enemies. Yes, corporations have lot's of control, that is true. You can thank Ronald Reagan for his repealing the Fairness Doctrine.

 

No .. as stated .. the statement is false --- which you agree with saying "it should be" That your opinion is being stopped from being expressed --- doesn't change because you think "It should be otherwise"

You then make the completely nonsense statement "media is freeer" .. as if you have the faintest idea the nature of media control .. continuously demonstrating you don't by saying thigns like "No one is stopping you from expressing opinon" showing you have little comprension of how your thoughts are controlled

 

You've have created a strawman.

"should be' refers to "democracy is about what the electorate wants'.

The electorate does get what it wants on many things, but not all things. 'Should be' goes to 'all things' not just 'some things'..

But given that it does get want it wants on many or some things, One of those things it does get what it wants is on the subject of individual expression, which, I repeat, no one is stopping @impermanence from speaking freely. and thus the statement is true and I posted no conflicting statements, as qualified herein.

Do you understand?

 

No Strawman - way off in the land of no understand .. and not in a swimming mood.

 

It's already a discredited joke. If you believe it is the governing philosophy of the U.S., then nothing would work...period.

Yes, there are pockets of this deranged mentality here and there, but nobody with an IQ of 75 takes it seriously. Like I said, once it's safe for the cowards to abandon this idiocy, they will.

 

I've always tried to adhere to the idea that nothing is ever as good or bad as it seems. I guess there's always a chance that they will destroy everything, but it doesn't seem likely. The overwhelming majority of Americans have had it with this non-sense.

Plus, their ideas are moronic. It's nothing more than a power-play and the adults will eventually regain control.