The Gov won't save our nation? The Gov is going to bail out FLorida

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Sep 29, 2022.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's right, scary socialism.

     
  2. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one pleads for help faster than those who fool themselves in to thinking they are independent, self-reliant, boot strappers who love to heap criticism on people who get government assistance when they need it. The sign carried by that ********* moron, "Government...get your hands off my Medicare" comes to mind.

    Thanks for the Maher video. Love the guy.
     
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  3. Yulee

    Yulee Well-Known Member

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    Shockingly, there are liberal homes destroyed too.
     
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  4. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apparently, to point of the thread was too nuanced for you.
     
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  5. Yulee

    Yulee Well-Known Member

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    No, It’s not. It’s just a stupid thread to stoke the divisive anger that already exists.
     
  6. mudman

    mudman Well-Known Member

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    Some people have no idea what words mean.

    Here's a thread showing some have no clue what socialism is.

    A government providing funds to help with a natural disaster isn't socialism. The existence of fire departments and police departments isn't socialism.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
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  7. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And yet, you have no objections to the government paying off student loans. Student loans that were obtained knowingly.
     
  8. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The government does not have hundreds of thousands of workers at its disposal to mobilize in the case of a natural disaster.

    All of that comes from the private sector, from NOT government.

    You think the fed employs tens of thousands of electricians and linemen?

    The only thing the government does is be the conduit for payments to hire the work, and in return they reduce the value by administrative costs, inefficiency, and bloated funding requirements.

    We would all be better off to pay less to fund a bloated government and use I surface and the private sector to provide resolution.

    Dollars in the storm surge only float... beyond that, the government had no other resolution capability.
     
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  9. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh! You actually expected the government to fix Big Power Company's infrastructure?

    Of course that's not what reasonable people are talking about. Socialism means the government helps when it's not profitable to help.
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Maybe we should summarize the video. After all, it's over 6 minutes long and some attentional abilities might not be available to all.

    Socialism is:
    -Medicare
    -Social Security
    -Highways
    -Protection by the Armed Forces
    -Education
    -A Safety Net
    -Help during and after a disaster
    -Public services: Police, Firefighters, Ambulance, Postal services, ...
    -Legal Services: Judges, Courts, Public defenders,...
    -Standards so that private profits companies don't kill us: food standards, water, fair labor laws, etc
    -Ports, embassies, Customs and Border Patrol...
    -... and many more

    ALL of these are SOCIALISM.
     
  11. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    What was your point here? Did you have a link for how the federal government is going to bail out florida? The link to the Maher was kind of gratuitous, but not on topic.
     
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  12. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Let's get something straight, mudman...

    Democrats, i.e., 'the left', i.e.,'liberals', propose government programs to help people. It's who we are. We believe in a government that does good for people.

    Because of this fact, there isn't a day that passes someone on the right doesn't call me or my liberal brethren a 'socialist' or a 'communist'.

    And when I point out the 'socialist' programs that dems do that work, then there is always someone like you that says 'that isn't socialism'.

    Well make up your ****ing minds.

    And,FYI, the two wiki entries on socialism total 150 pages if printed as a PDF.

    So, don't tell me you think socialism is merely 'where the state owns the tools of production and distribution' because that sentence clearly doesn't take up 150 pages.

    Somewhere in that 150 pages is data that gives rise to republicans calling democrats socialists for their love of government enterprising.

    Therefore, my OP stands, as CORRECT.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
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  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    it's to make the right see gov helping out is not a bad thing when people need it, sadly if this was a dem State, some on the right would be attacking them for financial issues or what not and saying they do not want to help them....
     
  14. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Geez, Biden was all over the tube last night saying the Fed would be there to help Florida, there is some $70 billion in damage. Weren't you watching? Or are you in florida where the power is off?

    Maher's video is relevant, given that repubs call dems 'socialists' because of their fondness of government run programs, paid for with taxes, that benefit the public.
     
  15. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you believe all of the above, do you therefore also believe that all governments are Socialist?

    If not, then what government do you consider to not be Socialist?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
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  16. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's really not that complicated. By definition socialism "is a left-wing to far-left economic philosophy and movement encompassing a range of economic systems characterized by the dominance of social ownership of the means of production as opposed to private ownership." Anytime the government offers a product or service traditionally offered by the private sector it most likely is an aspect of socialism. Just because the program helps people is a red herring.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
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  17. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't want to play word games, but I'd like to say that the right wing in US, and many on the left, consider the above socialism but I consider them social services and IMO there is a difference between social services and socialism.

    Socialism = Government owned and operated MEANS OF PRODUCTION
    Social Service = Government services provided for the benefit of the community, such as education and medical care

    This is why it does not make sense to call countries like Denmark socialist. They have wide array of tax payer funded social services, but their means of production is in private hands, so they have free market capitalism.

    Means of production = Anything that is used to produce products
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the USA uses the best of all systems, we do not limit ourselves to just one

    Greedy Corporatism is killing Capitalism though..... we need regulations to protect Capitalism from Greedy Corporatism
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
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  19. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    What Biden says, and what he does are generally two different things. Facts will matter, and when the Biden FEMA director hasn't engaged with FL, well, that's a problem. Would you agree?
     
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  20. mudman

    mudman Well-Known Member

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    My post was correct and yours wasn't. Police/Fire dept/etc does not equal socialism.

    Democrats wanting to make programs to do good for people is not why you get called a socialist or communist. You know this but your purposefully being disingenuous in an attempt to make a point. You are failing in this regard.

    Also, 'pointing out programs that dems do that work'......like what? You think the left is responsible for police and fire departments? They're not. In fact, it's the right that supports police, not the left so again, whatever point you're trying to make is failing.

    It is an absolute fact that the existence of police/fire/etc and the government helping their OWN COUNTRY during a natural disaster is in no way socialism.

    Again, your position here is wrong. This thread was meant to be divisive as has already been pointed out. I'm sure you know a government helping out in times of natural disasters is in no way 'socialism' and yet you started this thread anyway.

    This thread and your responses will not get any more of my attention. I pointed out how you're wrong, you'll never admit it, so we're done here.

    This thread needs to die, it's serving no purpose.
     
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  21. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    No one is complaining about federal government getting involved within the scope of the constitution. The complaint is when they try to get involved with everything. I don't understand why it's such a difficult concept for socialist regressives.
     
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  22. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The existence of any form of communal law enforcement is socialism. Socialism is nothing more than a community of any size pooling their resources in order to establish an agency from which all will benefit.
     
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  23. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Education and health care are products. Helping people purchase their Healthcare and education isn't socialism. I support this. Ie. I support vouchers but not public school systems. Public schools are a prime example of what socialism looks like and how politics can corrupt it and how it removes choice and freedom from the citizens.
     
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  24. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really? Then why are you bothering to post your opinion on this issue? No one is forcing you to chime in.
     
  25. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't know ANYTHING that applies to "all governments". All I can say is that the above services are socialist.

    Always keep in mind: binary thinking is something you see on the right. Very rarely on the left.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
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