Admiral Mullen: Biden needs to 'back off' and 'resolve this thing'

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Ethereal, Oct 12, 2022.

  1. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We could have tried to appease Pol Pot with all kinds of sweetners (like you proposed in Feb), but its not our style, - and I agree that it would have been a waste of time. You said US normally negotiates to keep other countries off of each others necks, but history shows we are really not into that. US did get involved in making sure Russia understood that an attack would be countered, but it seems Russkies thought we (not just US, but the entire Western world) were bluffing, and now they are paying the price for that error. This will set them back decades, so it will be worth the effort + we gain a big expansion in NATO in Sweden and Finland.

    Appeasing tyrants is never popular, but I don't see "major European war" or nuclear war being popular either. Let Russia wear itself out in Ukraine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2022
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  2. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    Russia is not willing to sit down and resolve this issue. They want Ukraine to pay and pay dearly. That type of attitude will not get Ukraine at the table either. So, the only option left is to continually arm to Ukrainians with defense systems and basically put the hurt on the Russian Military until Russia is willing to go to the table and be honest about the whole affair. That is not going to happen and I think Russians will come to a boiling point with this war sooner rather than later.
     
  3. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    for starters, that is the law. Second, we will not have a draft in this country again and not for a very long time.

    The talk that Biden is doing is letting Putin think twice about using nuclear weapons in the Ukraine region. He started this thing and he is getting is butt whopped by a country that should have fallen during the first few days of the war, long before we and other Western Allies began sending defense weapons to Ukraine.

    the only other option is to acquiesce to the Russians, give in to their demands, and run with all our tails between our legs. And that is not an option either. This is on Putin and nothing but Putin. Anything less is giving what the Russians wanted.
     
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  4. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    Of course I'm not going to vote for him. He's practically brain-dead. He doesn't even know where his own son died, FFS, and he thinks the other son, the drug addict that knocked up a hooker and committed a federal felony gun crime, is "on the straight and narrow". But whether our impending war with Russia is his fault or not does not hinge on my voting choices.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2022
  5. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    This has nothing to do with Ukraine. That said, feel free to back the murderer Putin.
     
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  6. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, but IMO, they will gradually withdraw to save face.
     
  7. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it funny how all Joe Biden supporters can seem to do is make excuses for him?

    Seeing as he's the president one truly wonders when anything will be his doing?
     
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  8. HockeyDad

    HockeyDad Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since you are doing NO fighting and simply using my tax dollars to give to the Military Industrial Complex to enrich the donor class, you don't have skin in the game. How many Ukranians are you willing to get killed to deny Putin? A million? Ten million? Are you willing to level every Ukranian city to win? I see no way for Ukraine to win.

    Putin just put a mad dog in charge of the military strategy and is engaging is mass mobilization. The carnage is going to escalate. Putin asked for one thing, Ukranian neutrality. It was a reasonable ask. Give it to him and spare the carnage.

    upload_2022-10-13_5-46-1.png
     
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  9. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its Russian mess, but feel free to blame the US for every ill in the world.

    Seriously...... :rolleyes: Hitler started by asking for just one thing and Chamberlain fell for it, but why repeat his mistake?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2022
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  10. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    I would be worried about this if it was actually Joe Biden sitting there doing all the communicating with Russia. Just like Trump and his middle east accords, he has people on his staff who do these things for him. Trump himself could have never accomplished any of that ****, but the people who worked for him whose job it was to do those things could.

    But beyond that, do you honestly think any kind of appeasement is going to be for the better when it comes to a man like Putin? Think what you want about Ukraine, it is very much an imperfect country with an imperfect government, but the bigger picture here cannot be ignored. You cannot allow dictators to march into other countries and declare them their own, because those people don't ever stop. History has shown us this over and over again. It's a precarious enough position trying to avoid a direct conflict with Russia that will result in nobody winning except China, but the world cannot do nothing.
     
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  11. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    For starters, Ukraine was neutral until they were invaded. They were not going to join NATO. They want to join the EU, an economic organization that would have helped Ukraine economically to allow access to markets in Europe with little to no barriers. That is still being neutral. Second, Putin is using that as an excuse. His real reason is punishing Ukraine for, I don't know, having a revolution in 2014, getting rid of a pro-Putin leader, installing a new government, and a government is more friendly to the EU on economic issues. This stuff has been going on since 2014 and has been escalating ever since. And all of this is on Putin.

    If you don't want tax dollars to be used to help a country like Ukraine, then maybe you should move your arse to the Donetsk region. I am sure they will welcome you. Other than that, aren't you guys want a republic and not a democracy? A republic means the leaders of our country make that decision, not any type of referendum out there on whether we do or don't. And as long as the equipment is being sent, and not troops, then we have not really declared war on anyone, have we?

    I would rather send our money and defense equipment to Ukraine than send troops as my first option. The second option will be to send Troops if Russia attacks Poland or any other NATO country. And the third option, well, let;'s just say it will not be fun for Putin.
     
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  12. Same Issues

    Same Issues Well-Known Member

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    Just as much of a chance of hard liners overthrowing him for the lack of progress and further escalating things by declaring war and full mobilization. This is probably more likely than someone starting a coup in Russia for peace with Ukraine.
     
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  13. Same Issues

    Same Issues Well-Known Member

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    Withdraw at this point in the game will not save Russia face. Ukraine offensive has mostly stalled at this point.
     
  14. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Whether the President of the United States, Joe Biden, the most powerful, authoritative figure in all of the NATO alliance, plays his part "perfectly from Day 1", or not, is going to be seen as starkly immaterial on the day that thermonuclear hydrogen bombs start exploding. Clearly, most of us don't seem to realize that although Putin may have 'painted himself into the proverbial corner', he's still got his 'finger on the button' and the very real consequences of any wrong decision can end civilization as it has existed for several hundred years.

    Indeed, it is incumbent on the most powerful figure in the NATO alliance, and arguably the most powerful leader in the world, not just to "play a part" but to WRITE THE DAMNED 'PLAY'! Right now, it looks like a stumbling, bumbling, three-act TRAGEDY, where nobody is going to win but cockroaches.... And merely shipping more and more weaponry into this war 'theater' is merely guaranteeing that more and more devastating weapons will be used -- by everyone!

    So, what should "Big Guy" do? To cover our own asses, go to DEFCON 2 ("Fast Pace") readiness and be ready (READY) to act within two minutes if a situation warrants it! Make Putin understand that if he unleashes nuclear war, whatever else happens, it will mean the certain death of his beloved "Rodina", his Mother Russia! Then, Biden needs to use his unique status and power to get everybody 'back to the table' and hash this whole thing out -- coming up with a brand new 'Minsk Agreement'... one which this time all the signatories will actually support with more than 'vaporware'....




    search recall marker
     
  15. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    How about "proportional response?" Putin has threatened to use Nuclear weapons. So, we must threaten to use nuclear weapons. Putin sends missiles to strike civilian targets. we send air defense systems to knock down those missiles. All of that is a proportional response. There is some debate with legitimate isolationists, like Rand Paul, on what Biden's policies are with Ukraine, but most of the conservatives are just uppity because their "guy" is not in power at all. It is a deflection on what is really going on and trying to use their political propaganda not to give Biden any credit for helping a nation that was attacked without cause.
     
  16. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    You are right in one capacity, it's true horseshit.

    Biden did absolutely nothing to prevent the escalation, but merely sat back and watched it unfold. He and his ilk were reactive versus proactive.

    Biden literally lifted sanctions on Russia prior to the invasion of Ukraine

    Biden then waited well after the initial invasion of Ukraine to authorize any sanctions even though he stated the invasion was inevitable.

    The US was still purchasing Russian oil even well after the fact that they finally initiated sanctions.

    The Democrat warhawks got their wish with war with Russia and it just might get us into WWIII!
     
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm really not getting your Pol Pot analogy, but your response to a proposal that would benefit the US as opposed to a major European war (which we now have-it's no longer theoretical) which doesn't benefit the US unless you're a defense contractor, seems to be the current neocon consensus, which is let's have a war, what's the worse that could happen?
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well I'll predict the opposite of that.
     
  19. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Chamberlain tried your approach with Hitler and the outcome is written in the history books.
     
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  20. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Wow you guys want this war to escalate badly. I admit I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why. To me it looks like a massive case of hysteria.
     
  21. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2022
  22. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how many of these dumb Chamberlain references I can take. I mean, they are really dumb, both in a historical sense and as any sort of comparative example. Nazi Germany had a 10 million man army at the time; Hitler really could (and did) threaten all of Europe. Russia has no hope of some sort of blitzkrieg through Europe as their current troubles indicate. They can't even get to Kiev let alone Warsaw, Paris, or London.
     
  23. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The comment I was responding to:
    upload_2022-10-13_12-49-36.png

    Yes, that's an escalation
     
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  24. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its actually a very accurate comparison, and the size of Hitler's army has nothing to do with it. Chamberlain brokered an agreement with Hitler so that Hitler could have the Sudetenland in exchange for Germany making no further demands. Likewise, you suggested we should have just given Putin what he wanted and hope he would stop with that. Once you start appeasing tyrants, they will push for more and more, and you end up being the loser. Besides, it was not just up to the US, because the whole Western world stood together on it.
     
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  25. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Well Tulsi Gabbard says that the democrats are ran by a group of war mongers. Looks like dems on this forum are carry water for them once again.

    Too bad some just repeat propaganda instead of using their own noggins.
     

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