Mass Killings at Virginia Walmart

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Andrew Jackson, Nov 22, 2022.

  1. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They're not sending their best.
     
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  2. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You really shouldn’t post about things you have no knowledge of. Locke was diametrically opposed to divine rights of Kings/Queens. His work was centered on the concept of natural law, not divine law. His work on natural rights concluded reason/logic was the determinate factor, not religion or deity.

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke-political/#NatuLawNatuRigh

    It’s no wonder folks are so confused. They believe philosophers/intellectuals said and believed the opposite of what they actually said/believed.

    Oh, I made no claim about rights from deity. I simply provided links and pull quotes from US government, Australian government, and the United Nations. You are welcome to address their claims but I’m not interested in strawman arguments from you either. Sorry.
     
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  3. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    He can’t even accept the idea evolution could result in a self consciousness being with a conscience able to use logic and reason. Which is bizarre because I’d bet dollars to doughnuts he subscribes to evolutionary theory exclusively.

    I wish people would sit quietly for a few hours and think about where the idea all rights and violations of rights are completely subjective leads to. Then pick up some books on world history and learn about exactly where that idea leads.
     
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  4. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    we are way too tough on victimless crime and way to easy on violent criminals
     
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  5. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is a lot of misuse in areas of the country and in certain demographics (young men, for example). Which leads to another bit of evidence that it isn’t guns, but humans that are the problem. Men and women have equal access to firearms yet the overwhelming majority of firearm crime is perpetrated by men. If guns were the causative agent we should see closer to a 50/50 split. Especially now that many ascribe to the theory men and women are subjective identifiers anyway.

    Not only is it men, it’s a relatively small group of men. The recidivism rates for convicted firearms violators is 77% and average time served for conviction is about 3 years. Only 0.03% of federal firearm offender prosecutions are of an individual without a prior criminal record. Most federal convictions are for illegal possession of a firearm snd 67% of the time that possession was illegal because the perp was a previously convicted felon. Rates of legal ownership (by state) are not correlated with rates of federal firearm violation convictions.

    Sorry for more data points. Just pointing out we know who the bad men are (and most of the reasons they are bad). But from the link I gave you earlier we see we don’t even attempt to prosecute the vast majority of straw purchase violations.

    It seems illogical to me for us to create hardships for legal gun owners (only 0.03% of federal convictions) when we won’t make it hard on firearm law violators (the other 99.97%). We should start with the violators and we know who they are.

    Didn’t get shot in Omaha. It was a “day off”. I’m in the process of taking advantage of modern medical miracles and getting my once legally blind (without corrective lenses) eyes converted to 20/20 vision. My vision has been mostly corrected with implantable collamer lenses. Now I’m in the process of getting my astigmatism corrected. To keep it on topic, I’m very excited about this because astigmatism makes the holograph reticle of my holographic weapon sight blurry. In theory soon it should look more like the red dot it’s supposed to look like instead of an animation of Haley’s comet I see today!
     
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  6. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    Your position is akin to the old tiger in the room tale, 557.

    You: There's a tiger in the room!

    Me: Where, I can't see it.

    You: It is invisible, but it is there.

    Me: Let's put powder on the floor and we will see its paw prints.

    You: It's too light to leave prints.

    Me: There is no tiger in the room at all.

    You: Yes there is, I've told you there is. It's not my problem you can't see any evidence of it.
     
  7. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    There have been over 600 mass shootings in the US to date, the vast majority committed by violent felons who illegally possess arms in Blue Cities, but, those get no coverage because they do not serve the narrative of the felon-friendly political activists who want to demonize and disarm law abiding Americans who have done nothing wrong.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2022
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  8. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You’ve been given solid visible evidence by me for my ONLY claim. You have offered unsubstantiated opinions, false accusations, and fallacies.

    Your time would be well spent doing some reading on the foundations of your constitution. I gave you some very good starting points. Take advantage of the education being offered.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2022
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  9. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Your government, my government, and the UN have mentioned tigers. I have not. Your attributing the tiger claim to me is disingenuous and fallacious.
     
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  10. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    I find it weird that you think that the UK and the US have a similar culture. Move the UK next to Somalia and see if they can keep their low murder rate. it's about culture (which is what you are talking about) and that is why you can't compare any country in Europe to the US. The fact that Brazil has more poverty, more corruption, etc. is exactly the same reason that South Chicago has a far greater murder rate than West Chicago.
     
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  11. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    The astigmatism in my right eye means I have always had to shoot left handed unless using a scope and even then I can see much better with my left eye which balances my lack of skill using my sinister hand.
    It seems once again we have much in common.
    I don't suppose you juggle do you?

    Back to the serious stuff...
    ...we also have men in the UK.
    Yet we do not have the same rates of homicide and our rates of other crime are not considerably worse. The problem isn't simply too many of the wrong kind of men.
     
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Trump got raised by his mother who is from the UK.
    Can't you tell? lol

    You just like to compare the US with 2nd world countries to make it look good.
    We all know the US is best compared with a rather similar culture, level of prosperity, corruption, how well the justice department works, etc.
    So hence you can only honesty compare the US with other western nations, like the countries in the EU, Australia, Japan, South Korea.

    And by doing so, the US is rock bottom and far of being that 1# that it want's to be.
     
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  13. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    If we completely remove violent crime using firearms from US violent crime statistics we have 3.5/100,000 rate of violent crime. If we leave firearm involved violent crime in your statistics you have 1.2/100,000 rate.

    We definitely have higher rates of bad men or are far less successful at keeping them from harming others. Perhaps a combination of both.

    LOL. No I couldn’t juggle three tennis balls to save my life. Most of the jugglers I know are pretty good gymnasts as well. I had a student teacher in high school that could do one handed hand stands on stacks of blocks with one hand and juggle with the free hand. He was a freak. I was a fair to middling gymnast but have no talent for juggling.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
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  14. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Tennis balls are no good. You don't want something that will bounce out of your hands.
    Most jugglers use bean bags like a hacky sack ball.
     
  15. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I tried rocks as well. No good. The bounce makes sense though. Maybe I’m circus material I’ve just used the wrong items. Maybe try lit road flares? Your thoughts?
     
  16. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    This seems to be on point:

    “90. And hence it is evident that absolute monarchy, which by some men is counted for the only government in the world, is indeed inconsistent with civil society, and so can be not form of civil government at all.”
    John Locke, An Essay concerning the true original, extent and end of civil Government (1690), VII - Of Political or Civil Society. (emphasis mine)
    https://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/4111/SocialContract/Lockegovern07.htm
     
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  17. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    In fact, it was the UK, not the US, 6 years after its 1996 Gun Ban, that managed to hit "rock bottom".

    "England and Wales have the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies, according to a new report by the United Nations.
    The survey, which is likely to prove embarrassing to David Blunkett, the Home Secretary. shows that people are more likely to be mugged, burgled, robbed or assaulted here than in America, Germany, Russia, South Africa or any other of the world's 20 largest nations."
    The Daily Telegraph, England has worst crime rate in world, By David Bamber, 12/1/2002.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1414855/England-has-worst-crime-rate-in-world.html
     
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  18. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The people of Virginia love their inherent, inalienable individual rights. Of course, the authoritarian Leftist brownshirts here and elsewhere hate that. An independent-minded armed citizenry is an impediment to the only thing "progressives" truly care about - power and control.
     
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  19. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    And: Want to know what happens if you hit the bullseye but overpenetrate and kill someone you weren't justified to shoot? You murdered them.
    This is like that. Disarming the law abiding spiked violent crime. People were victimized by crime at a higher rate because they were disarmed and mostly prevented from legally defending themselves. That's not a win.

    Violent crime spiked because you disarmed the law abiding and made it basically illegal to defend yourself. That removes half of the deterrence to crimes against the person: that you might pick the wrong target and get killed to death trying to rob or rape or assault them.

    People caught on camera murdering someone, who dip out on bond and then are caught on camera robbing someone, are clear continuing threats to the community and the law provides for them to remain in lock up pending trial. We do not often exercise that provision anymore.

    https://www.fox26houston.com/news/1...lt-violates-bond-conditions-at-least-37-times
    https://www.fox26houston.com/news/m...imes-accused-of-shooting-wounding-17-year-old
    https://www.click2houston.com/news/...r-arrested-for-violating-what-does-that-mean/
    https://www.fox26houston.com/news/m...an-free-on-bond-with-repeated-bond-violations
    https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/je...er-judge-reinstates-bond-for-inkster-lawmaker
    ^ This dude tried to take a handcuff key into the jail with him. That's an escape attempt. Normally you don't get bail after that, because you're per se a flight risk.

    What assault are you discussing now?


    Most of the people locked up in the US are for non violent drug offenses ffs. You really need to try looking at the data more closely than a headline.
     
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  20. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Actually you can compare some parts of the UK to America now. They've had a new census come out that details several of their larger cities are now minority English/Irish/Welsh/Scots descent.
    See Leicester, for example.
     
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  21. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Dude Japan and South Korea are not the West. They are part of the East, they just aren't ****ing commies.
     
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  22. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If guns were the problem I would be living in a war zone right now. Just about everyone in my corner of rural Virginia owns at least one firearm yet for some "mysterious" reason the only gun violence that gets committed out here is against white-tailed deer.

    And that wasn't the case in the cities where I used to live (Chicago, Richmond, VA) where the percentage of gun ownership was significantly lower but gun violence was exponentially higher. Furthermore, as you correctly pointed out, the majority of that violence was committed by young men, most of whom lived in our poorest neighborhoods (often projects), were raised in broken homes, were engaged in various forms of criminal activity and belonged to gangs. Many of these young men precisely fit the demographic that Sen. Patrick Moynihan warned about back in the 1960s when the federal government was enacting our War on Poverty and Great Society welfare programs:

    From the wild Irish slums of the 19th century Eastern seaboard, to the riot-torn suburbs of Los Angeles, there is one unmistakable lesson in American history; a community that allows a large number of men to grow up in broken families, dominated by women, never acquiring any stable relationship to male authority, never acquiring any set of rational expectations about the future -- that community asks for and gets chaos. Crime, violence, unrest, disorder -- most particularly the furious, unrestrained lashing out at the whole social structure -- that is not only to be expected; it is very near to inevitable...

    And he was right.

    Sadly, very few people are willing to face this problem, much less do anything to solve it. It's become another rail in American politics that people, and most particularly politicians, are afraid to touch for one reason or another. But many Americans and politicians are willing to talk about the symptoms of this problem, such as gun violence, because it enables them to avoid addressing the thorny underlying problem that can only be solved by making some very tough and painful choices - things politicians avoid at all costs (particularly the ones invested in our failing welfare system). And so the problem continues and the symptoms persist...
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
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  23. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Have you got three chainsaws?
    They're good for beginners.
     
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  24. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Locke was a classical liberal before it was cool. Probably doing double back flips in his grave with how liberalism has been corrupted.
     
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  25. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not true. You just like to compare the US to european countries instead of acknowledging any impact from the Latin American countries which has an extremely bad murder culture. If I go with what you say, then you have to remove sections of the US that have high poverty, high corruption, etc.

    It's much easier to blame everything on guns than to actually look at the real problems (and there are many).
     

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