Germany Says 'Nein' On Tanks At Allies' Big Ramstein Meeting

yeah...but I'd rather see the Ukes kick the living crap out of the Russians and see them scuttling out of Ukraine and all the occupied lands

 

The statement saying that Ukraine “lost “ 2800 tanks is absurd. Since the same statement says Ukraine had 2500 to start. That would mean Ukraine would have lost all of it’s original tanks and all donated tanks and all of the ones Ukraine received as a “donation “ from retreating Russians who abandoned their tanks.

 

He had those areas to begin with, proxy wars are not new, you don't think he could have annexed them or at least make them separated from Ukraine without all this mess ? if it ends with just an annexation it wouldn't be a good result as to the price Russia is paying , NATO is bigger and now will become much more aggressive, those areas I'm sure will be good to no one - constant warfare, so many dead for what ?

 

yeah....you should take that one up with @Lil Mike

 

That would ideal of course. And also get the flock out of Georgia and occupied Moldova.
Peace and security will not be achieved unless the Scum goes home and stays in it’s place. The swamp of Moskovy.

 

I am sorry , you are correct I was being lazy.

 

Fake news from one of the fakiest of fake news sites:

https://news.russia.postsen.com/trends/179939.html

 

Don’t know who you are quoting about how many tanks Ukraine lost . Whoever told you the number tell them that the statement saying that Ukraine “lost “ 2800 tanks is absurd. Since the same statement says Ukraine had 2500 to start. That would mean Ukraine would have lost all of it’s original tanks and all donated tanks and all of the ones Ukraine received as a “donation “ from retreating Russians who abandoned their tanks.

 

You do not understand? In that case, my friend, let me explain to you with an example.
Imagine - an Islamic terrorist received a test tube with plague bacteria and claims that he will break this test tube in the center of Edinburgh.
But we all know that methods for localizing the plague virus have long been worked out in the world, and there are also methods to combat this virus. That is, from the point of view of the existence of Scotland, this test tube does not matter.
And according to your alleged "logic", there is no point in intensifying the fight against Islamic radicals. Is not it?
But I assure you that the Scottish authorities will certainly increase their countermeasures against extremists and those who supply test tubes with the virus.
The same is with the supply of tanks. For the Red Army, these 100, 200, 300 ... 500 tanks do not matter. But this means that the Russians will respond to this move by intensifying the confrontation against the west on all fronts.
Did I explain clearly?

 

No not really. Because no matter what the tactical threat level is the viability (from a Russian perspective) from going from equivalency to extreme is not what your leaders were talking about. Their rhetorical position is that adding additional western kit to the Ukrainian inventory is irrelevant as the Russian ground forces would meet and counter that threat. Your talk of nuclear weapons to counter that threat is your position not your military's position or indeed Putin's position. IF you had said for example that the Russian T-14 was going to be placed in theater as a counter to these new tanks then (forget the fact that it can not and will not) that would have been a more viable comment.

The narrative use of nuclear weapons is a tactic of fear only. It is used only to scare the general public into thinking that any further assistance given to Ukraine will incur dire consequences and thus we (the West) should pull back from giving further military assistance. As you have seen with the decision to send tanks this rhetorical bluster does not and has not worked. The "let me win or I'll nuke you" line is not working so move on.....

......Scotland has enough issues deciding whether men are men or men can be women or even if they can be termed "men" or "women" at the moment so please don't confuse the SNP with anything more complicated than that for the moment...

 

Get the **** out of Ukraine and there will be no war. It's so simple a monkey could figure it out.

You are not the good guys here. You have killed over 6k civilians, injuring over 11000 more. Including children. You are trying to rob Ukraine of it's sovereignty and it's right to reject Russian culture. You are trying to claim their lands by force and dictate to the world that you can be a bully. And the world is pushing back and telling you to f-off.

So be a dear and f-off. Otherwise we can keep marching towards armageddon and you can thank midget hitler.

 

Your mistake is that you evaluate the adoption of certain military decisions from your point of view.
It doesn't work for Russians. Russians historically have been subjected to aggression from the West many times. They have a genetic memory of fighting West aggression.
And of course, everyone knows that after the nuclear apocalypse, the Russians will go to heaven, but the rest will simply die. (by the way, Putin spoke directly about this. And he also said - "If there is no Russia in this world, we do not need such a world")
I would also like to point out the fact that Russian fatalists and maximalists. And if they fight, then fight to the last drop of blood. (This feature of the Russians was well described by Nietzsche)
Therefore, a Western politician and an ordinary layman cannot understand certain actions of Russians. Hitler, Napoleon, Karl 12... and other Friedrichs starting aggression against the Russians, then bitterly regretted it.

And I assure you, no one in Russia is going to scare anyone. It doesn't make sense. The Russians only warn of a possible response.
Putin delivered the Munich speech back in 2007, but the West ignored it. Just like you, Western politicians thought these were mere threats. Later, Putin repeatedly warned that everything could end in war. And even at the end of 2021, Putin warned how it would all end. But Western politicians only grinned and were sure that the Russians were frightening.
Likewise with the use of nuclear weapons. Even you for some reason think that this is empty talk in order to scare. Did the events that took place teach you nothing?

 

Firstly, Hitler is a product of Western "civilization".
Secondly, the Russians are now liberating their territory.
If you live in the forest and have not heard about the latest events, then I will tell you - the DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye, Kherson - this is the territory of Russia. In accordance with all necessary legal regulations.
And in this case, it is you who support the aggression against the Russians. And of course you will pay for it.

 

Nope. Don't respect or recognize that territory as Russian. And now I and most every Western country doesn't value any declaration coming from Putin's mouth. Bunch of liars and thieves.

 

...true...

okay so a lot to un-pack...for more reasons than I can think (and again as you pointed out this is purely my perspective), I think any historical context fails in that the events leading up to this conflict have been imagined and invented in order to fit in with Putin's wants and desires. Now you will disagree on that and that's fine; its been discussed at length in pubs and TV and around the dinner table and on this forum with all its posted moronic hyperbole of nazis and gays and NATO expansion and and and...but those reasons and many others in my view were just a means to an end. The point being that despite what the Russian intelligence services briefed to Putin (the final go-ahead for the invasion was given when the US pulled out of Afghanistan in spectacular display of disorder and mayhem), the Ukrainians fought back! That is the point at which any historical shoe-ins which people imagine fail; ironically its actually a reverse fulfillment of Putin's essay. Putin's essay is essentially about encounters in time and space of Russia with Ukraine and contains no real context for Russia AND Ukraine - its about the past and contains no ideas or prospects of a future. So.....

.. in terms of that and on the basis that you are not fighting for Mother Russia but the wants and desire of a kleptocratic regime, what are these Russian troops actually fighting for? What are they spilling their blood for? It seems to me that Putin has used Ukraine as a crutch upon which to build a narrative in order to further his ideals of his own expansionist dreams. Nothing to do with Russia or the Russian people just him.

 

Is Scotland really have the desire to become Ukraine of the West and separate from the U.K.? Of course if England, Wales, and Northern Ireland invades it will put Ukraine in a tough spot after the U.K. was so helpful to Ukraine. England May invade Scotland to protect the English speaking people who are being persecuted by Scottish Nationalists lead by that great son of Scotland Stephen McBandera. Sorry could not help asking.

 

....that made me laugh....

I kid you not there is this massive debate in the Scottish parliament at the moment about this bloke...a convicted rapist....he lobs on a dress and knickers and transitions himself (whatever the fu*k that means) into a "woman"; he calls himself Isla Bryson now. Anyway as this lad is now a "real woman" guess what.....in the infinite wisdow of wokeness the Scots put this rapist into an all womans prison......you can't make this stuff up.....

 

That is funny. I have no patience for people who wake up in the morning and only in their minds are a male, at lunch they are chatty bubbly girls, mid afternoon they are trying out for the boys wrestling team , after after diner they go to the mall with their moms to purchase a prom gown.

 

There is a fact - the DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye, Kherson - these are new regions of Russia.
Like it or not, the Russians don't care about your opinion. And the Russians are liberating their territory. And this is a fact.

 

This is your opinion.
I have a different opinion.
Every event has two sides, like a coin.
Let's consider both.
1. Legal justification.
In 2014, an armed coup d'état took place in Ukraine. Some regions of Ukraine did not recognize the armed seizure of power as legitimate. And in accordance with the UN concept of the right of nations to self-determination (for example, the Kosovo precedent), they proclaimed their sovereignty. The Russians recognized this sovereignty.
Further, these already sovereign regions turned to the Russians with a request for armed protection. (eg Kosovo precedent) Russians, in accordance with international rules on mutual assistance, have agreed to military assistance to these regions. (for example, the Kosovo precedent)
Further, sovereign countries, through a referendum, turned to Russia to accept these regions as their own. The Russians agreed with this. Legally, everything is done flawlessly.
Therefore, today the Russians are fighting for, as you put it, "their mother Russia."
2. The other side of the coin is the spiritual aspect.
I assure you 100% - Russians perceive all regions of the former USSR (Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, ... the Baltic states - all 14 republics) as a component of "Mother Russia", whose regions TEMPORARILY got out of control.
Whether you like it or not, this is a fact. Also, for example, how the Serbs consider Kosovo their integral historical part. Or how Spain considers Catalonia its own, such as Britain considers Scotland its own....etc.
Therefore, I assure you, the Russians will fight in these regions because they are mentally fighting for "their mother Russia."
And you can refute, argue FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW. But it will not change the essence.

And the most important indicator, which makes all your arguments null and void - for eight years Ukraine bombed the regions that did not submit to the usurpers, but you have never been outraged by this. ("You", you must understand that this is not you personally, but in this context this is a figurative expression.)

 

That is your fact. Here is a more factual fact;

This is Russia signing off on the borders of Ukraine and promising to the world that they would never aggress on Ukraine. (which includes; the DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye, Kherson)



But then you know...Russian signatures mean **** all these days.

 

I think I have to reject your premise. Anything to do with coups and laws etc is farcical and using those absurdities as a crutch to justify an invasion of a sovereign country were really not worth the time it took for you to write them. They are not true.
No country has a right to march into any other sovereign nation and install its own government. The problem with this whole war is that not only is it a conflict consuming human lives but a conflict at war with truths; consuming facts and blurring them into alternative fictions.
The simple fact is that Ukraine was invaded by Russia in 2014 as part of a larger war against democratic order in not only Ukraine but Europe as a whole. Truth was the first victim; it was discarded by a lot of (invested) western politicians with such a degree of speed and success that certain European governments could no longer make the connection between pure aggression and dis-information. This success in 2014 was one of the pillars for the 2022 invasion; Putin positing that "they swallowed it before they'll swallow it again as they need my gas!". I am under no illusion that this is one mans conflict and has nothing to do with Russia or the Russian people. This is the war instigated by a man who basically misunderstands the world in which he lives.

 

All wrong. Fake news works.

 

In the case of Crimea I might agree ...

A "farcical absurdity" fallacy describes your post quite well my good Scotsman .. you could not have projected any better !?

Just because the persecution of Russian Ukrainians by the Azov Nazi's was one of many things used to justify invasion .. does not mean that these persecutions did not happen young man .. so quite the farcical and absurd non sequitur fallacy you managed concurrent with a large dose of ironic projection .. hope your wearing something under that kilt as your backside is exposed

 

When and where these persecutions did happen? Bring exact cases. But of course, as always, moral cripples who justify Russian aggression and killing of innocent people, can't bring any facts about things, they claim to happen.