Germany set to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, Der Spiegel reports

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Lindis, Jan 25, 2023.

  1. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Likely different types to different areas. Keep the same types together and set up dedicated logistics chains, repair facilities etc. If any number of M1s get into the field they will be such a drain that they will need to be closer to good infrastructure. Probably used for a big punch to open up lines and hold flanks while easier to supply tanks (probs some of those nice upgraded Polish T-72s) exploit the breach.
     
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  2. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is somewhat wishful thinking, though, until those M1s actually get delivered. I heard military commentator, General Barry McCafferty, Ret., say that the administration is really dragging it's feet, in the delivery of these tanks. Perhaps like you, I had initially accepted all the explanations of why the M1 was not a particularly good fit, here. But McCafferty's unvarnished opinion, made it appear that the worry of our tilting the balance of power, & so provoking a possible Russian escalation, into the use of non conventional weapons, might be playing a large part in our reluctance. The General said there was no reason our tanks couldn't be on site in a month, and no reason that a Ukrainian tank crew could not be trained to operate them, in that same time.

    Also, of course-- as impressive a weapon, as they are-- 31 is a rather small quantity, especially for as potentially large a battlefield, as exists in Ukraine.
     
  3. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    If the Ukrainian Army commanders are smart they will operate them in onesive organizations in order to facilitate maintenance and repair. I have not seen any evidence to assume that the Ukrainians are not smart. Do you?
     
  4. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Answer this for yourself. Why wouldn’t Ukraine have every right to join NATO? You know the answer to this next question ‘ does NATO maintain any nuclear weapons on Ukrainian soil?”. You know the answers are that Ukraine has an absolute right to join NATO and no NATO does not have any nuclear on the territory of Ukraine. NATO has no weapons of any kind on Ukrainian soil because any western donated weapons are Ukrainian weapons once Ukraine takes possession of the.
    Now answer this strategic question for yourself. Did Russia invade Ukraine in 2022 and in 2014 and send so called “volunteers” to Eastern Ukraine to fight along pro Russian traitors and did Russia provide weapons to pro Russian traitors.

    You that Russia invaded Ukraine and provided lethal support to pro Russian traitors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
  5. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are still talking about the Cold War and the USSR being prevented from putting a base on Cuba right?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
  6. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. You really need to go back to the beginning of my conversation with another poster to understand the context.
     
  7. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ukraine has as much right to join NATO as Cuba did to join the Warsaw Pact and allow the USSR to put a military base there during the Cold War. Do you agree?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
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  8. cabse5

    cabse5 Banned

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    That 'Ukranian prowess' comes from all the other nations of the world assisting Ukraine.:roll:
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
  9. cabse5

    cabse5 Banned

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    See my post #233 in this thread.
     
  10. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    No! NATO was strictly a defensive ( one blemish with Clinton attacking Serbia over Kosovo) organization. The USSR putting nuclear capable missiles 90 miles from the U.S. was a very aggressive act. NATO has never acted aggressive.y toward the USSR or toward Russia.

    Remember who invaded Ukraine! Who invaded Afghanistan. Who invaded Hungary! Who invaded the then Czechoslovakia! Who invaded Georgia.who invaded the Traniester part of Bessarabia aka Moldova.
     
  11. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    No sir, I can't say that I have!
     
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  12. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    Very true!
     
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  13. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    We provided the weapons; Ukrainians did the fighting.
     
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  14. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    Germany once sent a Tiger to Tangier, if you remember.
    Now Germany sends Leopards to Lemberg.
    Just saying.


    Lemberg = Lwiw or Lwow or Львов
     
  15. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Lemberg was the name that Austria called L’viv when they occupied Western Ukraine or Halychyna. The poles called L’viv, Lwow when they occupied Halychyna. Russians referred to L’viv as L’vov or “Львов” as you have it.
    Just a little bit of history about L’viv for our non Ukrainian friends.

    As a personal side note my after the USSR fell apart family in Ukraine uncovered a packet of family documents which were hidden in 1939 when the Soviet terrorists invaded Western Ukraine among them was virtually an intact birth certificate that showed my grandfather was born in “Lemberg”. He served in the Austrian army in WWI and his unit fought against units of the Russian empire.

    The Russians during the Soviet occupation between late 1943 and August 1991 called L’viv derisively “ Banderaschtad” because it was the epicenter of Ukrainian patriotism. Shortly after independence a rock group form by obviously young musicians called themselves “ Banderaschtadt”. They had a sense of humor and obviously wanted to needle pro Russian terrorists. They disbanded when got too old.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
  16. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Just like Rashka "prowess" coming from Iran, NK,Syria....for ammo, drones, bodies.:)
     
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  17. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    You got that correct.
     
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  18. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Do we detect some sour grapes. “Shkoda” lol !
     
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  19. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As was the Warsaw Pact. It was Germany that attacked the USSR. Patton wanted to fight the Russian. The USSR saw the US as a threat.
     
  20. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    The Warsaw Pact was Russia's slave army.
    After Russia invaded Estonia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, etc. But let's just focus on the socialist leftist country which attacked Russia 80 years ago.
    We definitely shouldn't have kowtowed to them at that time.
    More like an obstacle to their world domination. The Soviets were not defensive in nature and Marxist Socialist ideology focuses on world domination.
     
  21. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    1) I thought this thread was about tanks going to Ukraine, as would fit the Latest U.S. & World News Forum, we are in.

    2) I have already explained to you the vast differences, between nuclear missiles in Cuba, in 1962, and no nuclear weapons, going to Ukraine, even if it were to become a member of NATO. Would it be helpful, for me to once more go over those differences, as well as others, that have occurred over the last 60 years?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
  22. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    Nobody who doesn't support rape and murder cares.
     
  23. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes please explain why the Monroe Doctrine gave the US the right to prevent Cubs from joining the Warsaw Pact? Was it a bilateral agreement with the US and the USSR?
     
  24. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    No one ever wanted to join the Warsaw Pact.

    The USSR was able to establish and maintain military bases in Cuba throughout the Cold War. Your question is based on a false premise.
     
  25. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    No one ever wanted to join the Warsaw Pact.
     

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