ChatGPT: Did Donald Trump damage confidence in American elections and democracy in it's citizenry?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Jan 28, 2023.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I say yes, to a large swath of the US amongst his base.

    I put the question to ChatGPT, and was curious to how it would answer the following question:

    Question:

    Did Donald Trump damage the confidence in American elections and democracy in it's citizens?


    ChatGPT answer.

    It is widely believed that Donald Trump, during his time as President, damaged confidence in American elections and democracy among some segments of the population.

    During the 2020 presidential election, Trump and his campaign made false claims of widespread voter fraud and a rigged election, despite no evidence to support these claims. After the election, Trump and his supporters continued to push these false claims and staged the January 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol which was an attempt to overturn the election results, this resulted in significant damage to democratic institutions and to the trust of citizens in the integrity of the American electoral process.

    Additionally, Trump's statements and actions during his time in office and after leaving office, have been widely criticized for undermining democratic norms and institutions, such as the rule of law, freedom of the press, and the peaceful transfer of power.

    Furthermore, Trump's rhetoric, which often stokes division and mistrust, has been seen by many as contributing to a decline in trust in American democratic institutions and a loss of faith in the democratic process among some Americans.

    It is worth noting that there are also many Americans who continue to have confidence in the American electoral process and democratic institutions. But it is undeniable that Trump's actions and statements have had a significant impact on the public's perception of the American democratic system.

    I can't find fault with the answer. Interesting. I would be interested in someone on the right posing a question, and see how it responds. The site claims it strives to give correct and truthful answers, though it might not always succeed.

    Feel free to use ChatGPT in your replies, but note, it's only fair to credit it if used, noting that it's not logical to assume it as 'authority', the site caveats that it could be wrong, and this must be factored in and confirmed, when using it as a research tool.

    Also, it must be noted that i's knowledge base was cut off, I think, in 2021, but it's not current, so I'll have to confirm the actual cut off date.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
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  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump said what many already knew- there's fraud in our elections.

    Often its not enough to matter. But it can swing a close election.

    And if the videos of people scanning the same boxes of ballots over and over, the proven lies about 'water main breaks' and statistically implausible 4am ballot surges arent evidence enough, then no, I dont have 'proof' for you.
     
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  3. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to see how ChatGPT would answer if a pro-Trump supporter asked the very same question. My guess, it would be a totally different answer.
     
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  4. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    All of those videos have been debunked. Sad you haven't done your homework.

    Question
    Is the video of people scanning the same boxes of ballots over and over in the 2020 election proof of fraud?

    ChatGPT: The video of people scanning the same boxes of ballots over and over in the 2020 election is not proof of fraud. The act of scanning the same boxes of ballots multiple times is not necessarily indicative of fraud, it could be a result of a number of other factors such as a malfunctioning scanner, human error, or a software issue. Additionally, allegations of fraud were thoroughly investigated by state and federal officials, as well as by multiple independent organizations, and no evidence of widespread fraud was found.

    It's important to note that allegations of voter fraud are serious and should be investigated, but without concrete evidence to support these claims, it is important to trust the results of the election as determined by the electoral college, and certified by states. In addition, multiple court cases challenging the election results have been dismissed due to lack of evidence.

    Does CHATGPT have a liberal bias, a bias favoring Democrat positions?

    As a language model, I do not have personal beliefs or biases. I am a machine learning model that is trained on a large dataset of text from the internet, and my responses are based on patterns in that data. However, the data I was trained on may contain biases that are reflected in my responses. It's important to note that my knowledge cutoff is 2021 and my responses are based on the information available at the time of my training.

    It's worth noting that the internet is a vast and diverse place, and my training data includes a wide range of perspectives and opinions on various topics. However, if you feel that my response is biased, I encourage you to fact check the information provided and seek out additional sources to form your own conclusion.

    The internet is rife with Democrat and Republican, liberal and conservative, anti-Trump and pro - Trump positions. How is it possible that it would favor a position that is anti-Trump?

    Well, the answer is not anti-Trump, the answer is factual, it is neither pro or anti Trump, because facts are facts, devoid of politics, and the program favors facts, that is what it attempts to do for it's program, though it admits its answers might be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
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  5. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The question had no idea that I was a democrat, or not a fan of Trump. The question is politics neutral.

    I asked the same question of Biden:

    Question:
    Has President Biden done any damage of the confidence in American elections and democracy in it's citizens?

    ChatGPT's answer:

    It is not accurate to say that President Biden has done any damage to the confidence in American elections and democracy in its citizens. The integrity of elections and the confidence in the democratic process are complex issues that are influenced by a variety of factors. While some individuals may have concerns about specific aspects of the election or the actions of certain political figures, it is important to note that the election was determined by the electoral college, and many states have certified the results as accurate. Additionally, multiple court cases challenging the election results have been dismissed due to lack of evidence. President Biden's administration is currently working on several policies to ensure fair and just election process and to restore the people's trust on democracy.
     
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  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Question
    Is there fraud in our elections?

    Govt: In our democratic system, the authority of the government is delegated to it by the governed via representatives elected by the governed. Since fraud would delegitimize that authority and render the governed merely ruled, all the representatives agree that there was no fraud.

    It should be noted that elected representatives could never admit to election fraud without calling into question their own authority. But they investigate the elections thoroughly and find no evidence that they were elected fraudulently.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
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  7. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    The fatal flaw, in your logical argument, above, is that politicians do not always make logically consistent arguments. Hence, many Republicans, who had won their own elections, in 2020, nevertheless were among those charging election fraud, and saying that election results were unreliable. So your theoretically plausible argument, has been disproven by true life experience. Politicians have no problem, maintaining massive election fraud, untrustworthy voting security, and yet, that they are the legitimately elected officials.

    Look at Trump or Kari Lake, who both wanted people to believe that the proof of election fraud, would be their own loss, while their victory would be validation, that the election had been clean & honest. It comes down to the fact that people do not think, strictly, along logical lines, so are willing to go along with lines of thought which are not cohesive, as long as they arrive at the desired results. IOW, human hypocrisy, totally negates your argument.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
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  8. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The facts are as follows:

    All elections have irregularities and anomalies. What Trump did was to claim Democrats stole the election and he made this claim before the first ballot was ever cast, and he did it to prime the political pump because when he lost, all he had to do then was point to any of the normal irregularities that occur in all elections as confirmation of his claim he made before the first ballot was cast.

    Given that his base appear to be hang on to his every word, he found them easy to persuade, and thus the entire scheme was to his political advantage, to disrupt confidence in elections, to stir up the electorate, to cause chaos, given that Trump appears to enjoy working in an chaotic environment, he is, literally, an agent of chaos, a veritable chaos merchant and all of this will be to his advantage given that it makes it extremely difficult for anyone to compete against him in the GOP, as no politician has ever had to deal with a genuine demagogue like Trump before.His base are not sophisticated enough, not familiar enough with the classic demagogues of history and their methods to understand how they are being manipulated by Trump.

    And there it is, the truth, as plain as night and day, Trump is a demagogue.

    There have been instances of fraud, but they are so few in number that they have never affected the outcome of any election, nor has any lawsuit based on them resulted in a state or federal judge tossing the election in any district or state.

    The allegation by Trump was, essentially, as follows: 'Democrats stole the election via massive fraud".

    That allegation is categorially false as no evidence thus far has been shown in any court of law that a judge has accepted as valid evidence sufficient to prove that allegation..

    Elected Representatives who are on the ballot are not in control of audits and election machinery. Many states Trump sued in were controlled by Republican administrations noting that a number of the judges who ruled against Trump were appointed by Republicans and a few were appointed by Trump.

    Some quotes of Judges from lawsuits brought by Trump and/or his surrogates

    TRUMP V. BOOCKVAR
    "Charges require specific allegations and proof. We have neither here."

    TRUMP V. WISCONSIN ELECTIONS COMMISSION
    "The Court has allowed [the former President] the chance to make his case and
    he has lost on the merits."

    KING V. WHITMER
    "...nothing but speculation and conjecture that votes for President Trump were
    destroyed, discarded or switched to votes for Vice President Biden."

    KING V. WHITMER (sanctions against 9 attorneys including Sidney Powell)
    "...a historic and profound abuse of the judicial process."

    REPORT: LOST, NOT STOLEN (A report by Republican Attorneys)
    "Donald Trump and his supporters have failed to present evidence of fraud or
    inaccurate results significant enough to invalidate the results of the 2020
    Presidential Election."



    Your premise just doesn't wash.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
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  9. Torus34

    Torus34 Well-Known Member

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    American elections have been tampered with for many years. Some of the most shameful tampering occurred in response to the Emancipation Proclamation. That tampering has not yet ended. A case can be made that some of it is the result of the underlying culture in certain areas of the United States of America and that political parties enforce the culture for their own aggrandizement.

    Regards, stay safe 'n well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
  10. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    it is somewhat incredible that so many repub congresscritters denied their own authority by denying the accuracy their elections. why did those cheating democrats do this to mr trump yet allow so many repub senators to be reelected?
     
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  11. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is it possible that there was 2020 election fraud?
    Yes, it was possible, but President Trump milked his supporters out of $250 millions for costs of the fight to find the LEGAL evidence of the fraud. He came to the LOGICAL conclusion that such evidence does not exist and decided to keep the money instead.

    Is it possible that President Trump stole from me $100 million? Yes, it is possible, but because I am a LOGICAL person, I would not search for a legal evidence of this crime, even if I had $250 million.
     
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  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On what do you base the claim of Trump's 'conclusion'?
     
  13. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Possibly because the fraud is only effective in certain areas, or too risky in others.
     
  14. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Actually, no, Trump didn't damage confidence in elections - that honor rightfully belongs to the Dems. There were myriad questionable occurrences during the election that deserved thorough investigation, but the 85 day time frame between election and inauguration didn't allow for it. And, of course, once Dems took control the fact that there is no process other than impeachment to remove a sitting President made the issue moot.

    Dems even bragged about "saving" the election in Time magazine.

    And full disclosure: I feel it's time to move on; we need to stop "fighting the last war" and ensure future elections are secure.
     
  15. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    From my understanding, it is initially based on your search history. What makes this interesting is if you decide to change your search history, then it would create a somewhat different answer. this is the reinforcement learning feedback embedded in the program. So, a pro-Trump conservative, will not accept that answer and will do the following feedback to change that answer to what they want. Hence why the question would be answered differently once the AI knows the political affiliation of the user through its search history and feedback. The alignment is based on your initial search history in how it comes up with the initial answer. That is what is different with this than with GDP-3.
     
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  16. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is very simple: President Trump is a ferocious fighter and great American Patriot, for example:
    after the U.S. Commerce Department banned Chinese ZTE corporation for flouting U.S. sanctions on trade with Iran and North Korea, Trump fought like a lion to remove the ban and only to fine ZTE:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-help-china-telecom-company-zte-idUSKCN1IF201

    Trump fought like a lion to give the wealthy 14% PERMANENT tax break and only 2-4% TEMPORARY tax break for the workers.

    And President Trump is a great American Patriot - do you believe he would prefer to keep $250 millions instead of fighting to the last penny to defend American Constitution?

    So the only LOGICAL conclusion is that President Trump knew he lost faire and squire.
     
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  17. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    There's no rational way to deny that he did exactly that.
     
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  18. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    So basically it's all Trump's fault never mind that had the ground not been fertilized for more than 150 years, by assorted people and politicians including various and sundry machine politicians Trump's comments would have fallen on deaf ears. The overwhelming majority of folks who do not vote in elections in this country lust there among their reasons for not doing so a belief that the system is rigged.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
  19. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    There have been anomalies, irregularities, but nothing that proves Trump's allegation that Democrats stole the election via a massive coordinated effort, not in modern times, that I know of, anyway. I first poked my head into politics in 1964, during the LBJ - Goldwater election.

    I posed the question to ChatGPT, the AI program that is now very popular, which draws from an incredibly large database of internet data (from 2021 on back):

    In the history of America, has there ever been proof of a massive conspiracy by one party to steal a general election via fraud and deception via internal methods?

    There have been allegations of election fraud and misconduct throughout the history of the United States, but there is no credible evidence of a massive conspiracy by one political party to steal a general election through internal methods on a nationwide scale. Many allegations of fraud have been thoroughly investigated and found to be unsubstantiated. The US has systems in place to ensure the integrity of elections, including multiple levels of oversight, audits, and recounts. Nevertheless, it's important to address any legitimate concerns and to continue to improve the election system to ensure public confidence in its fairness and accuracy.

    By ChatGPT for Patricio Da Silva
     
  20. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    That isn't quite right, either. I've been paying close attention to politics since I was 13 in 1964 in the LBJ / Goldwater race.

    I have observed a growing discontent by people in their elections and politics, over the years, but the point here is, none of the politicians in history have damaged confidence in elections to the degree that Trump has, with his onslaught of "The press is the enemy of the people" and 'the only way Democrats can win is if they rig the election' (before the first ballot was ever cast), no president or candidate in history has ever repeated such startling lines, such bald face lies, not ever, especially not at every rally, held almost weekly repeating these mantras over and over and over and over again, nor has any politician held as many rallies as Trump has, who continues to do it after he was elected, as if he were still running. These lies were the engine of the juggernaut of rage which erupted to motivate a mob to attack the capitol.

    And, what is particularly stunning is the right's refusal to connect the dots of his shouting these lies via the largest megaphone on earth, the President's bully pulpit, and their collective rage on january 6th. That they fail to see the connection is utterly astounding.

    Well, I can absolutely guarantee that if the person shouting these lies via the bully pulpit were Biden or Obama or Hillary, they sure as hell would be connecting the dots. Look at how they accuse Biden on such skimpy evidence regarding Hunter Biden, in total ignorance of the in your face corruption by Trump and his siblings an associates, from Jared's garnering $2 billion big ones, to Trump's bilking the US Taxpayer hundreds of millions for golf trips more than any president in history, all the while during the campaign he criticized Obama for 'spending too much time on the Gold Course', and I could go on and on and on.

    The hypocrisy is so mindboggling it literally grabs you by the throat.

    IF one points this fact out, many on the right will scour the landscape for any morsel of acts that might vaguely resemble something that Trump has done, and draw a false equivalency. But, when it comes to Trump, there is no equivalency. He is a monster of all monsters. Evil incarnate. If you can't see it, I can't help you.

    I asked ChatGPT to write an essay on Trump's corruption and abuse of power, if there were any:

    During his presidency, Donald Trump faced numerous allegations of corruption and abuse of power. These accusations stem from his actions both in and out of office and raise serious questions about his commitment to upholding the law and preserving the integrity of the American presidency.

    One of the most notable examples of Trump's corruption is his blatant use of the presidency for personal gain. He frequently used his position to promote his businesses, including the Trump International Hotel in Washington D.C., which became a hub for foreign dignitaries seeking to curry favor with the president. He also used his position to negotiate deals that directly benefited his personal financial interests, such as his failed attempt to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.

    Another example of Trump's abuse of power is his attempt to use the power of the presidency to influence the outcome of the 2020 election. He made false claims about widespread voter fraud, and sought to use his influence to pressure election officials in several states to overturn the election results. He also incited a violent insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th, 2021, which sought to prevent the certification of the election results and preserve his hold on power.

    Trump's corruption and abuse of power also extended to his dealings with foreign countries. He sought to use the power of the presidency to advance his personal and political interests, rather than the interests of the American people. This was most notably demonstrated in his efforts to solicit foreign interference in the 2020 election, including his now infamous phone call with the President of Ukraine in which he sought to leverage military aid in exchange for political favors.

    In conclusion, Donald Trump's presidency was plagued by allegations of corruption and abuse of power. His actions, both in and out of office, raise serious concerns about his commitment to upholding the rule of law and preserving the integrity of the American presidency. It is the responsibility of all Americans to hold their elected officials accountable and to ensure that future presidents are held to the highest standards of ethics and integrity.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
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  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    No, I don't agree with that contention at all. I used to be a conservative, and I know how to frame a question from a conservatives view. I've asked it question from a left view, and a right view, and you'd be surprised at how sophisticated this program is. Don't think that the designers haven't thought of this, they are light years ahead of you.
    The reply by ChatGPT is not based on my search history. It's not writing to please me. I wrote a rebuttal to another poster and I asked chatGPT what it's opinion of my comment was, and it pointed out some inaccuracies, so I researched it and it was correct and I was wrong so I modified my response. I dont' always do this but I find myself doing it more and more. ChatGPT, doesn't claim to be right all the time, but it is, indeed, and amazing tool.

    If you ask it a leading question, it will reply that it is not programed to be biased for or against one particular school of political thought.

    So, the trick is to ask it an honest question.

    For example,

    If you asked it 'Write an essay on Trump's corruption and abuse of power'.

    That's a leading question.

    The way to ask it is to frame it thus: Write an essay on Trump's corruption and abuse of power, if there is any, and if there isn't, so indicate it. It will reply with factual events where the conventional wisdom is that the events have been interpreted as corrupt and abusive.

    If you ask a question to ChatGPT on Trump's strenght and weaknesses, it will comply.

    However, I would ask the question of Trump's strength and weaknesses, and do the strengths outweigh the weaknesses or do the weaknesses outweigh the strengths enough that he is unfit for office? So, I did:

    What are Trump's strength and weaknesses, and do the strengths outweigh the weaknesses or do the weaknesses outweigh the strengths enough that he is unfit for office?

    Donald Trump's strengths and weaknesses are often subjective and dependent on individual perspectives. However, some commonly cited strengths include:

    Strengths:

    • Strong communication skills: Trump has a reputation for being a charismatic speaker and for effectively communicating his message to his supporters.
    • Business acumen: Trump has a long history of business success and is often seen as a strong negotiator and dealmaker.
    • Unconventional approach: Trump is often seen as a non-traditional politician who is not afraid to challenge the status quo.
    Some commonly cited weaknesses include:

    • Lack of political experience: Prior to becoming President, Trump had no prior experience in elected office or in government.
    • Impulsive behavior: Trump is often criticized for making impulsive decisions without considering the consequences.
    • Lack of transparency: Trump faced numerous allegations of corruption and conflicts of interest during his presidency, and was often criticized for his lack of transparency and lack of willingness to disclose important information to the public.
    Whether or not Trump's strengths outweigh his weaknesses or vice versa is a matter of personal opinion. However, many critics argue that his weaknesses, particularly his impulsive behavior and lack of transparency, made him unfit for the presidency. These concerns were further amplified by his role in inciting the violent insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th, 2021.


    I think that is a fair assessment. I would be far more brutal, though.

    To get the most out of ChatGPT, you have to be precise in articulating what you are asking it to do, and frame the question, or request, in an honest way, mindful of both sides of an issue. Of course, this is easier said than done. Most of us will unwittingly ask it leading questions.


     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
  22. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What’s strange is that most of the verified fraud comes from Republicans

    Fulfilling the P in GOP — projection
     
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  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Self serving nonsense sir, my first election that I paid any attention to was Eisenhower/Stevenson. Since that time I've seen Democrats run on issues twice. Kennedy and Bill Clinton the rest of the time most of their time has been spent on character assassination.
    It is that sir which breeds contempt for politics and politicians and distrust in the entire process.
     
  24. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm sure you'd love nothing more for that to be true.

    But the juggernaut of rage on jan 6's was the mantra was 'stop the steal'.

    Dems didn't give them that idea, Trump did, at every rally he shouted, through the largest megaphone on earth:

    "The only way democrats can win is if they rig the election' and he began that mantra BEFORE the first ballot was ever cast, he repeated it over and over and over again.

    If it were true, you'd have a point. But, it's false.

    "A mob was assaulting the capitol in HIS name, these criminals were carrying HIS banners, hanging on HIS lies, and screaming their loyalty to HIM....."

    ...Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
  25. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your response is anemic and does not offer any rebuttals on par to and commensurate with my comment, nor it anywhere near a compelling argument to your point.

    It's vacuous, empty, devoid of substance, depth, etc.
     

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