Do liberals care about the debt and deficit?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by FatBack, Jun 1, 2023.

  1. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that both Obama and Clinton spent most of their terms with conservative Houses - you know the guys that write the spending bills. Also interesting that Until dems took over Bush II had declining deficits including on of 160 billion (with a "b". Also Obama had 5.6 trillion in deficits until GOP took the House. Clinton? 6 of his * years were under GOP control - his best fiscal results.
     
  2. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    Why do republicans only care about the debt when a Democrat is president?
     
  3. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevent.

    BOTH parties spend like drunken sailors when THEIR man is in the White House, because they know it stimulates the economy (long term damage be damned).
    BOTH parties try to cut spending of programs when someone NOT from their party has control of the White House. It's a chicken-**** game that BOTH
    parties play.
     
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  4. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I'm unable to satisfy your question based on your opinion.
    You could also ask your question again and simply reverse the words Democrat and Republican
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  5. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    The noise tends to come from one side though. I have heard more wailing about the debt in the last week than all of 2017-2021.
     
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  6. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    They average democrat didn't care when Trump added 7 trillion to the debt. The average republican cares when Biden as to the debt. Why?
     
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  7. Tucsonican

    Tucsonican Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it. As a rule, the liberals like more government rather than less government. For example, if you're a liberal and you start with 1000 people on welfare and, after a year, you have 10,000 on welfare then you're 10x better off. Debt and deficit work the same way for liberals because government spending is part of the GDP calculation and, therefor, the more government spending you have the better liberal economic expert you are.
     
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  8. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    It's funny you should say that because the same liberal claims that he loves big government !!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
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  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Probably because the average Republican understands that numbers add up to things and that they mean something.

    Why does the average Democrat think you can just print more fiat currency and that that Ponzi scheme is never going to collapse?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  10. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    Did republicans care when Trump added $7 trillion to the debt? Guess they didn't understand numbers back then
     
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  11. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I just want to make sure that you understand the difference between the national debt and the deficit here. Because that seems to be something that a lot of people have trouble understanding the difference between and I just want to make sure that you're not confused about that

    Are you claiming that Trump added 7 trillion to the national debt, or to the deficit?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  12. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    When Bill Clinton took office in January 1993, the federal budget deficit was projected to be $310 billion that year, or about 5 percent of GDP. The Congressional Budget Office was also projecting that five years later, in 1998, the federal budget would still be in the red to the tune of $357 billion, or 4.5 percent of GDP. At the time, the CBO called the deficit outlook, “grim.”


    ...There are, indeed, two main heroes in the story of the remarkable budget surplus of 1998, but neither of them are Newt Gingrich or his Republican Congress. It turns out that their contribution to deficit reduction did more harm than good. No, the true heroes of deficit reduction were, first, President Clinton, whose 1993 budgetpassed without a single Republican vote—raised taxes on the wealthy and dramatically altered the nation’s fiscal path, and second, a steadily improving economy. Those two factors, and particularly the interaction between them, account for virtually the entire fiscal improvement. Contrary to the Gingrich assertion, legislation passed by the Republican-led Congress of 1995 through 1997 combined to actually worsen the fiscal situation—albeit slightly.


    Take President Clinton’s 1993 budget bill—officially known as the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. OBRA, which mainly raised taxes on wealthy people but also raised the gas tax, extended limits on discretionary spending and cut back on some mandatory spending, was signed into law on August 10, 1993. Just five months prior, the Congressional Budget Office projected a 1998 deficit of $360 billion. One month after the bill passed, the CBO’s new estimate of the 1988 deficit was down to $200 billion. The CBO explained the dramatic improvement this way: “For the first time in two and one-half years, the deficit projections have taken a decided turn for the better… The reconciliation act deserves most of the credit for the improvement over the long run.” Indeed, of the $160 billion improvement from March to September of that year, CBO directly credited OBRA with $143 billion. In fact, OBRA turns out to have been the single largest contributor to the 1998 surplus.


    But there is another reason why the economic boom produced even more revenue than expected, and again, it had absolutely nothing to do with Newt Gingrich. I’ll let the CBO report from September 1997 explain: “Over the past four years, growth in revenues has consistently outpaced that of gross domestic product (GDP) by 2 to 3 percentage points. Several factors have contributed to that outcome. The tax increases enacted in the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 were the main causes in 1994 and 1995. Also, the personal and corporate income tax bases grew faster than GDP over the period, especially in 1996 and 1997. Higher income taxpayers experienced above-average income growth, which boosted revenues because their income is taxed at higher marginal rates.”



    ....In other words, the rapid growth in personal and corporate income, especially among those at the top of the income ladder, interacted with the higher tax rates that Clinton and the Democratic Congress enacted in 1993.

    https://www.americanprogress.org/article/not-so-fast-newt/
     
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  13. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    DEBT rose almost $7.8 trillion

    The growth in the annual deficit under Trump ranks as the third-biggest increase, relative to the size of the economy, of any U.S. presidential administration (IN ONLY 1 TERM VS THE TOP 2 HAD AT LEAST 2 TERMS)

    https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump
     
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  14. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I thought Druggie Limpballs was dead?

    Without false premises, distortions and LIES!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
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  15. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Client lower taxes in his second term? <-- link
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  16. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Why doesn't the average conservative understand that cutting $10 billion for school funding WHILE at the same time increasing
    military spending for tanks by $10 billion DOES NOT EQUAL reducing spending?

    Republicans and Democrats BOTH spend like drunken sailors - they just spend it on different programs. Republicans do not have roses
    growing from their butts when it comes to spending.
     
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  17. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    At least he's not one of the top five debt-adding presidents of all time like Obama is
     
  18. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Capital gains, which benefited working people, homeownership exemption

    His '93 tax increased the top rate 20%, took the top rate to 39.6%



    The act increased the top federal income tax rate from 31% to 39.6%, increased the corporate income tax rate, raised fuel taxes, and raised various other taxes.


    Previously, the top individual tax rate of 31% applied to all income over $51,900. The Act created a new bracket of 36% for income above $115,000 and 39.6% for income above $250,000

    • Previously, corporate income above $335,000 was taxed at 34%. The Act created new brackets of 35% for income from $10 million to $15 million, 38% for income from $15 million to $18.33 million, and 35% for income above $18.33 million.
    • The 2.9% Medicare tax had previously been capped to apply to the first $135,000 of income. The cap was removed.
    • Transportation fuels taxes were raised by 4.3 cents per gallon.
    • The portion of Social Security benefits subject to income taxes was raised from 50% to 85%.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1993#:~:text=The Act created new brackets,The cap was removed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  19. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Per year, he's king. Numero uno.
     
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  20. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    But the fact of the matter remains.... He is not one of the top five most debt producing president in the history of America.

    Obama, however is one of them.

    And Obama can't blame the covid epidemic on that
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  21. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    Yea because Obama didn't take over a worldwide recession.

    Also, Obama had an 8 year term compared to Trump's 4 year term.
     
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  22. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    Trump added $7 trillion to the national debt. You know that thing that republicans whail about when a Democrat is president?

    Funny thing is he did it right under your noses and you didn't care.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
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  23. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    And yet he is still not in the top five like Obama is.... Even when he was at the wheel during the worst pandemic the United States has ever known.
     
  24. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    They will blame COVID, but ignore the added $1.8 trillion in debt before COVID.
     
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  25. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    4 years vs 8 years. I thought republicans know numbers?
     
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