Do liberals care about the debt and deficit?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by FatBack, Jun 1, 2023.

  1. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Care to point to what his debt was? You know , laws passed that were unfunded like the GOP does?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
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  2. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Obama’s Final Numbers

    • The economy gained a net 11.6 million jobs. The unemployment rate dropped to below the historical norm.
    • Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 4.2 percent after inflation. The gain was 3.7 percent for just production and nonsupervisory employees.
    • After-tax corporate profits also set records, as did stock prices. The S&P 500 index rose 166 percent.
    • The number of people lacking health insurance dropped by 15 million. Premiums rose, but more slowly than before.
    • The federal debt owed to the public rose 128 percent. Deficits were rising as Obama departed.
    • Home prices rose 20 percent. But the home ownership rate hit the lowest point in half a century.
    • Illegal immigration declined: The Border Patrol caught 35 percent fewer people trying to get into the U.S. from Mexico.
    • Wind and solar power increased 369 percent. Coal production declined 38 percent. Carbon emissions from burning fossil fuel dropped 11 percent.
    • Production of handguns rose 207 percent, to a record level.
    • The murder rate dropped to the lowest on record in 2014, then rose and finished at the same rate as when Obama took office.
    [​IMG]

    https://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/obamas-final-numbers/
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you missed this above. <-- link
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  4. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any idea what the financial damages were from the covid epidemic?
     
  5. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    And yet he is still one of the top five debt-producing presidents ever in the history of this nation..... So there is still that no matter what you post.
     
  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    sure...


    Screenshot_20230530-183735.png
     
  7. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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  8. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    President Trump signed legislation and approved executive actions costing $7.8 trillion over the decade—compared to $5.0 trillion for President Obama and $6.9 trillion for President Bush, and he enacted these costs in just a single four-year presidential term, compared to his predecessors’ eight years in the Oval Office. The largest drivers were pandemic relief legislation ($3.9 trillion), the 2017 tax cuts ($2.0 trillion), and legislation raising the discretionary spending caps ($1.6 trillion).


    $3.9 Trillion in Additional Deficits


    When President Trump took office in January 2017, he inherited a growing economy and budget deficits that had gradually fallen to 3% of GDP in the years since the Great Recession. At this time, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projected that the $585 billion budget deficit from 2016 would dip to $487 billion by 2018, before the baby boomer–driven rise in Social Security and Medicare costs would gradually push deficits up to $1.4 trillion by 2027.

    Yet while running for president, Trump pledged to balance the budget and then pay off the entire national debt. He boasted to the Washington Post’s Bob Woodward, “we’ve got to get rid of the $19 trillion in debt … I think I could do it fairly quickly … I would say over a period of eight years.”


    https://manhattan.institute/article...nsive-overview-of-spending-taxes-and-deficits
     
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  9. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    Do you think comparing 4 years vs. 8 years is an apples to apples comparison?

    You can pretend all the debt Trump added was because of COVID, but it wasn't and the numbers dont lie.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
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  10. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    And yet none of that information actually changes the fact that Obama was one of the top five debt producing presidents in the history of the entire nation
     
  11. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I think you should read my question again.
     
  12. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    What's this POS chart? you want Obama's debt numbers go to CBO, Four consecutive trillion dollar plus deficits in a row. And then GOP got in and deficits when in half.
     
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  13. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    I did.

    How does COVID explain why Trump added $1.8 trillion to the debt in 2018 and 2019?
     
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  14. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    LMAOROG, Sure Heritage isn't a propoganda site


    "The deficit has come down, and I give the Clinton Administration and President Clinton himself a lot of credit for that. [He] did something about it, fast. And I think we are seeing some benefits."
    Paul Volcker, Federal Reserve Board Chairman (1979-1987), in Audacity, Fall 1994

    One of the reasons Goldman Sachs cites for the "best economy ever" is that "on the policy side, trade, fiscal, and monetary policies have been excellent, working in ways that have facilitated growth without inflation. The Clinton Administration has worked to liberalize trade and has used any revenue windfalls to reduce the federal budget deficit."
    Goldman Sachs, March 1998

    "Clinton's 1993 budget cuts, which reduced projected red ink by more than $400 billion over five years, sparked a major drop in interest rates that helped boost investment in all the equipment and systems that brought forth the New Age economy of technological innovation and rising productivity."
    Business Week, May 19, 1997

    "My colleagues and I have been very appreciative of your [President Clinton's] support of the Fed over the years, and your commitment to fiscal discipline has been instrumental in achieving what in a few weeks will be the longest economic expansion in the nation's history."
    Alan Greenspan, Federal Reserve Board Chairman


    THEN DUBYA/GOP HAD TOTAL CONTROL, GOT RID OF PAYGO, THERE WENT SURPLUSES, 2 UNFUNDED WARS, 2 UNFUNDED TAX CUTS AND THE LARGEST MEDICARE EXPANSION, UNFUNDED OF COURSE, EVER THAT COST $119 BILLION THIS YEAR
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  15. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to sit here and Chase down the facts about your question when you chose not to include them.
     
  16. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Sure, it was simply GOP policy, should be easy to show what Obama did that created the deficits right? lol
     
  17. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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  18. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    So one bill, less than $600 billion created the debt? LMAOROG
     
  19. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I love how liberals like to pretend that the subprime mortgage lending crisis started with bush when we all know it was Clinton...
    Liberals liked to pretend that everyone deserved a house even if they couldn't afford it...

    What's more, in the Clinton push to issue home loans to lower income borrowers, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made a common practice to virtually end credit documentation, low credit scores were disregarded, and income and job history was also thrown aside. The phrase “subprime” became commonplace. What an understatement. … Tragically, when prices fell, lower-income folks who really could not afford these mortgages under normal credit standards, suffered massive foreclosures and personal bankruptcies.”

    And then George Bush came into office and liberals blamed all of it on him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  20. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    You're citing stuff before 1997 tax cuts. It's all speculative and guesses; It proves nothing.
     
  21. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Probably whatever he did to create that budget shortfall was related to whatever he did to make himself one of the top five debt incurring President in the history of the nation
     
  22. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    It's easily verifiable

    The fact that many do not know about the mountain of debt Trump added before COVID proves republicans only care about the debt when a Democrat is president.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
  23. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you don't care that Obama was one of the five most debt producing presidents in the history of the entire nation, prove Democrats only care about the debt when a Republican is president
     
  24. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Q When did the Bush Mortgage Bubble start?

    A The general timeframe is it started late 2004.

    From Bush’s President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

    “The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”
    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-FCIC/pdf/GPO-FCIC.pdf


    "Since 1995 there has been essentially no change in the basic CRA rules or enforcement process that can be reasonably linked to the subprime lending activity. This fact weakens the link between the CRA and the current crisis since the crisis is rooted in poor performance of mortgage loans made between 2004 and 2007. "

    https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2009/did-the-cra-cause-the-mortgage-market-meltdown

    Q Why is it commonly called the “subprime bubble” ?

    A Because the Bush Mortgage Bubble coincided with the explosive growth of Subprime mortgage and politics. Also the subprime MBS market was the first to collapse in late 2006. In 2003, 10 % of all mortgages were subprime. In 2006, 40 % were subprime. This is a 300 % increase in subprime lending. (and notice it coincides with the dates of the Bush Mortgage bubble that Bush and the Fed said)

    “Some 80 percent of outstanding U.S. mortgages are prime, while 14 percent are subprime and 6 percent fall into the near-prime category. These numbers, however, mask the explosive growth of nonprime mortgages. Subprime and near-prime loans shot up from 9 percent of newly originated securitized mortgages in 2001 to 40 percent in 2006.


    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/11_origins_crisis_baily_litan.pdf


    Q. Er uh, didn’t you notice your link said the explosive growth of subprime mortgages started in 2001?

    A. It did kinda say that didn’t it? However, the link below clearly states subprime was 10 % in 2003. 9% in 2001 to 10% in 2003 is only a 1% increase. A 1 % increase over 3 years is flat not explosive. 10 % in 2003 to 40% in 2006 is explosive. So the explosive growth started in 2004 which lines up pretty good but not exactly with the timeframe of the Bush Mortgage Bubble.


    “In dollar terms, nonprime mortgages represented 32 percent of all mortgage originations in 2005, more than triple their 10 percent share only two years earlier
    "
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/27648293


    Q Well there was a 300 % increase in subprime loans. Why not call it a “Subprime Bubble”?

    A Subprime loans refers to the credit score of the borrower. It doesn’t make it a bad loan if proper underwriting standards are used. Bush’s working group said it was “triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages,”. He leaves out the part where it “quickly spread to all mortgages”.


    In 2004, 4.3 % of all mortgages were No Doc loans. In 2006 over 50% of all loans were No Doc loans.



    "Another form of easing facilitated the rapid rise of mortgages that didn't require borrowers to fully document their incomes. In 2006, these low- or no-doc loans comprised 81 percent of near-prime, 55 percent of jumbo, 50 percent of subprime and 36 percent of prime securitized mortgages."

    Q HOLY JESUS! DID YOU JUST PROVE THAT OVER 50 % OF ALL MORTGAGES IN 2006 DIDN’T REQUIRE BORROWERS TO DOCUMENT THEIR INCOME?!?!?!?

    A Yes.

    Q WHO THE HELL LOANS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO PEOPLE WITHOUT CHECKING THEIR INCOMES?!?!?

    A Banks.

    Q WHY??!?!!!?!

    A Two reasons, greed and Bush's regulators let them. And then they sold the loan and risk to investors and GSEs clamoring for the loans. Actually banks, pension funds, investment banks and other investors clamored for them. Bush forced Freddie and fannie to buy an additional $440 billion in mortgages in the secondary market.

    VERN, POLITIC FORUM

    Q Why would Bush’s regulators let banks lower their lending standards?

    A. Federal regulators at the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) and the Office of Thrift Supervision work for Bush and he was pushing his “Ownership Society” programs that was a major and successful part of his re election campaign in 2004. And Bush’s regulators not only let banks do this, they attacked state regulators trying to do their jobs. Bush’s documented policies and statements in timeframe leading up to the start of the Bush Mortgage Bubble include (but not limited to)

    Wanting 5.5 million more minority homeowners
    Tells congress there is nothing wrong with GSEs
    Pledging to use federal policy to increase home ownership
    Routinely taking credit for the housing market
    Forcing GSEs to buy more low income home loans by raising their Housing Goals
    Lowering Invesntment bank’s capital requirements, Net Capital rule
    Reversing the Clinton rule that restricted GSEs purchases of subprime loans

    Lowering down payment requirements to 0%
    Forcing GSEs to spend an additional $440 billion in the secondary markets
    Giving away 40,000 free down payments
    PREEMPTING ALL STATE LAWS AGAINST PREDATORY LENDING
    But the biggest policy was regulators not enforcing lending standards.
     
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  25. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think Dems cares when Trump added to the debt? I didn't hear this much whining from Dems when it came time to pass a spending bill.

    Also pretending as if Obama didn't take over a worldwide recession while giving Trump a free pass shows it's about what letter is next to a person's name to make you concerned.
     
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