Do liberals care about the debt and deficit?

LOL

 

Jesus Christ man... You should pay those people for publishing all of that fair use information that you unfairly used..

Bill Clinton is the one that decided everyone needed a house even if they couldn't afford the loan

 

So you're telling me that there was no threat of a government shutdown during Trump's years?

The covid recession beat anything that Obama had to deal with hands down.

The only event that was remotely close to the covid recession was the Great depression

 

"The Conference of State Bank Supervisors (CSBS) along with a number of prominent organizations, including the National Governors Association (NGA), the National Association of Attorneys General (NAAG), the National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL), and the North America Securities Administrators Association (NASAA), have voiced their opposition to the OCC's proposed rule that would effectively preempt all state laws that apply to the activities of national banks and their state-licensed subsidiaries. The groups are asking OCC to withdraw the controversial proposal."

States Unite to Fight Sweeping OCC Preemption

Q What did all 50 State Attorney Generals and all 50 State Banking Supervisors say would happen?

A Bad things

"Concentrating regulatory control at the OCC ensures that regulatory and consumer protection problems that emerge will be solved with a one-size fits all approach," CSBS President and CEO Neil Milner wrote in his comment letter, adding that the proposed rule would concentrate regulatory power in the hands of a single individual, the Comptroller, with virtually no direct congressional oversight until problems or scandals emerge."

Q Did they predict in 2003 exactly what happened?
A Yes


In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. The OCC also promulgated new rules that prevented states from enforcing any of their own consumer protection laws against national banks.


The federal government's actions were so egregious and so unprecedented that all 50 state attorneys general, and all 50 state banking superintendents, actively fought the new rules.


THEY SUED THE FEDS, AND WON, IN LATE 2009!!!

 

FAIR USE? LOL


Sure ignore that dates

The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”

Private Sector Not GSEs Triggered Crisis

The data, from the Federal Reserve Board, shows:

• More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

• Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

• Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that’s being lambasted by conservative critics.

When it comes to making policy and legislation, facts matter

https://ritholtz.com/2012/10/4-year-flashback-private-sector-not-gses-triggered-crisis/

Private Sector Not GSEs Triggered Crisis

 

What part of that is meant to address my post that you quoted?

 

"(In 2000, CLINTON) HUD restricted Freddie and Fannie, saying it would not credit them for loans they purchased that had abusively high costs or that were granted without regard to the borrower's ability to repay."

How HUD Mortgage Policy Fed The Crisis

"In 2004 (DUBYA), the 2000 rules were dropped and high‐risk loans were again counted toward affordable housing goals."

https://fcic-static.law.stanford.ed...2008-06-10 Washington Post How HUD Policy.pdf


Q What about the conservative 'narrative' that Bush tried to stop the bubble?

A Its simply another false narrative created by the 'conservative entertainment complex'. That narrative is 'crafted' around the statements of Bush saying fannie and freddie needed to be regulated. Lets look at the structure of this narrative

Bush said GSEs needed to be regulated (actually true)
Barney Frank and other dems said GSEs were fine (actually true)
Democrats blocked reform (false)
GSEs caused the crisis (false)

Just another mish mosh of lies spin and half truths the 'conservative entertainment complex' relies on to push their agenda. Lets deconstruct the narrative. Yes, Bush repeatedly talked about GSE reform. The problem is reform in 2003 had nothing to do with subprime mortgages. As I've already documented, Bush lifted the restrictions Clinton placed on the GSEs to limit their purchase of abusive subprime loans. Later in 2004, Bush would increase the GSE housing goals forcing them to buy more low income home loans and get them to buy $440 billion more minority home loans in the secondary market.

"•Substantially increase by at least $440 billion, the financial commitment made by the government sponsored enterprises involved in the secondary mortgage market, specifically targeted toward the minority market;"

Homeownership Policy Book - Executive Summary

"In April, HUD proposed new federal regulations that would raise the GSEs targeted lending requirements. HUD estimates that over the next four years an additional one million low- and moderate-income families would be served as a result of the new goals."

HUD Archives: HUD DATA SHOWS FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC HAVE TRAILED THE INDUSTRY IN PROVIDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN 44 STATES

there goes the narrative that Bush tried to stop anything

June 2002

Fact Sheet: President Bush Calls for Expanding Opportunities to Homeownership

Today, President Bush announced a new goal to help increase the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million before the end of the decade. The President's aggressive housing agenda will help dismantle the barriers to homeownership by providing down payment assistance, increasing the supply of affordable homes, increasing support for self-help homeownership programs, and simplifying the home buying process & increasing education. The President also issued "America's Homeownership Challenge" to the real estate and mortgage finance industries to join in his effort to increase the number of minority homeowners by taking concrete steps to tear down the barriers to homeownership that face minority families
https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020617.html

 

The one where you claimed it was BJ Bill, the best conservative Prez since Ike?

From Bush’s President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”

 

Over debt ceiling? NOPE THE DEMS Gave into him, they didn't on his border wall money and he closed Gov't for 35 days, and didn't get the money so he stole it from DOD!

 

Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, according to data from Inside Mortgage Finance, a specialty publication. One reason is that Fannie and Freddie were subject to tougher standards than many of the unregulated players in the private sector who weakened lending standards, most of whom have gone bankrupt or are now in deep trouble.

During those same explosive three years, private investment banks — not Fannie and Freddie — dominated the mortgage loans that were packaged and sold into the secondary mortgage market. In 2005 and 2006, the private sector securitized almost two thirds of all U.S. mortgages, supplanting Fannie and Freddie, according to a number of specialty publications that track this data.

In 1999, the year many critics charge that the Clinton administration pressured Fannie and Freddie, the private sector sold into the secondary market just 18 percent of all mortgages.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24504598.html


OR HERE

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fannie-mae-freddie_b_1549411

 

A government shutdown due to things like border wall funding. Not much hand wringing from Dems or republicans about the national debt like we see when a Dem is president.

Ignore COVID and explain the $1.8 trillion added 2 years prior to COVID.

 

Do liberals care about the debt and deficit?

Absolutely, that's why they raise taxes on the hyper rich rather than borrow more money from them.

 

Well, as much as rightwingers care when a repub is in office.

 

The topic line question can be asked about our federal legislators in general.

There's a way out of the national debt problem. It's for us, all of us, to take responsibility for it. We, the American voters, put into office those who allowed it to grow to the present level. We should pressure them to raise taxes: first to a level which will eliminate each annual deficit and, ultimately, to a level which will begin to reduce the actual national debt. Our legislators will not take effective action if we're unwilling to do our share.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

I am a liberal and I care about the public debt. I have given specific proposals as to how I think the deficit should be reduced. I also think that government should pay for the services it renders, as in collecting taxes, rather than put in on the national credit card.

Now, when liberals, who cared about the debt, said in 2017 that Trump's tax cuts were a bad idea, we were greeted by conservatives with laughs and claims that tax cut would pay for themselves. I believe that you were one of those who made that claim. Therefore, forgive us that we don't find conservatives credible when they cry about the debt with Biden in office, when THEIR votes enable the Trump tax cuts and spending increases, while bragging about the Trump magical economy. In reality, it wasn't magical, it was bought through government red ink. So, conservatives have ZERO ground to stand on lecturing others about the deficit and the economy.

Oh, btw, please stop this spiel about Obama adding slightly more TOTAL debt than Trump, when Obama was 8 years in office compared to Trump's 4 years. It just shows your inability with numbers when you have your partisan blinders on.

 

DoD is about 25% of the budget, it was at its peak in the 1950s at nearly 70%. The increasingly insecurity state - if it isn't insecure why do they think they need 17 different intelligence agencies spying on we the people - adds another 10 to 20%. No one knows exactly how much because we , the spied upon aren't consider worthy enough to have such touchy information. Note as a brief aside the more out of touch, corrupt, and tyrannical a government becomes the less they trust the governed. Hence the Obama and Biden administrations while speaking a lot about Transparent were in fact among the most opaque admins ever.

And please as long as we the people vote for ever more government programs we will get ever more government programs and these programs will perforce become ever more duplicative and ever less effective and require ever more funding and in order to make sure of ever expanding power to do all those things that in point of fact don't need doing in the first place, it will eventually manage to make slaves of us all and in the end the freest people in the country will be those in political prisons because they will be the only ones free to do peak their minds. It is the Solzhenitsyn principle .

 

You might have to quote the conversation where you were told that "liberals are not concerned with the debt and the deficit". Whether or not you were told that, the claim is not true, but since you opened a thread to discuss that claim, then we need to see the claim. You copying and pasting dozens of posts from other threads is not helping matters.

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter." - Dick Cheney

Now, that comes from a Republican leader, not an internet posters, and that flat out states that Republicans are not concerned about deficits and debt.

Partisan finger pointing isn't going to solve anything, and there is only one politician who admits GOP is as much guilty, if not more than Dems. That guy is Rand Paul. He calls out Republican hypocrisy.

"When Republicans are in power, there is no conservative party in US. " - Rand Paul on GOP budget bill which increased spending by 21%. He said their behavior literally defines the word "hypocrite" and "intellectual dishonesty"

"How can you be against Obama's spending, the be for GOP spending" - Rand Paul

"Do you remember when GOP howled to high heaven when Obama spent money, and now they are doing the very same thing" - Rand Paul

See speech here

 

Let's be real honest, shall we...liberals only care about the debt and deficit when a Repub is in the WH and conservatives only care about it when a Dem is in the WH.

 

That pretty much sums it up, and it was the point Rand Paul was making in his speech, and I respect him admitting his own party is as big a problem as the party he opposes.

Manchin, Tester and Sinema joined Republicans to overturn Biden's student loan relief idea, which shows there is some who don't always vote along party lines. Its a step in the right direction
Senate votes to overturn Biden’s student loan relief program
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/co...-bidens-student-debt-relief-program-rcna87223

 

A great republican once said

“deficits don’t matter” Dick Cheney

 

ridiculous

ya know, lemmi, i have been wondering what all these "i'm too rich to actually do anything" because of my "social status" actually do all day. i guess that is why all of our parks are being turned into golf
courses.

mmt derives from the solution of a special case of keynes general theory. how long ago did you take that macroeconomics class?

there is plenty of evidence that everything you know is wrong, you don't have to take my word for it.

 

the full quote is "deficits don't matter. reagan proved that." r cheney

of course, dick was busy shoveling defense dollars into his privatized military and 2 wars.

 

Yeah. In the mid-late 90s the economy took off like a rocket but that wasn't due to tax increases. It was due to a tech explosion and the reduction in interest rates which, a decade before, had been over 17%. The economic optimism was off the charts but it was also based on unrealistic expectations and, by early 2000, started a drop off that glorious cliff, giving all those gains back in a year or so.

 

"a year or 2 later?" do you mean after the 2001 tax cut and the resumption of the oil wars?

"deficits do not cause themselves." rampart sr

 

YEP

Enacted the 1993 Deficit Reduction Plan without a Single Republican Vote

"The deficit has come down, and I give the Clinton Administration and President Clinton himself a lot of credit for that. [He] did something about it, fast. And I think we are seeing some benefits."
— Paul Volcker, Federal Reserve Board Chairman (1979-1987), in Audacity, Fall 1994

"Clinton's 1993 budget cuts, which reduced projected red ink by more than $400 billion over five years, sparked a major drop in interest rates that helped boost investment in all the equipment and systems that brought forth the New Age economy of technological innovation and rising productivity."
— Business Week, May 19, 1997



Remember When Alan Greenspan was Worried That We Would Pay Off the Debt Too Quickly?


Jan 26, 2001

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan yesterday endorsed the idea of a major federal tax cut as not only fiscally prudent but also necessary.

Citing the huge increases projected in federal budget surpluses, Greenspan told the Senate Budget Committee that his earlier cautions against cutting taxes are no longer valid. The looming surpluses have "reshaped the choices and opportunities before us," he said, noting that the federal debt could be paid before the end of the decade and there would still be money left over, barring a major and prolonged recession.

If the surpluses don't end when the debt does, there could be a serious economic disruption, Greenspan said. That makes large tax cuts essential, he indicated.


https://archive.ph/zYKYC

WANT TO TRY AGAIN