Is the United States becoming a theocracy?

With a weaponized Supreme Court latching onto make-believe cases to legislate that discrimination against legal marriages is legal, where is the nation headed?

John Adams who wrote to his wife Abigail that “My religion you know is not exactly conformable to that of the greatest part of the Christian World,” proclaimed in the Treaty of Tripoli that “the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion.”

Thomas Jefferson, intensely interested in religious philosophy and an enthusiastic proponent of religions freedom, emphasize the need for “a wall of separation between church and state.”

RENDER UNTO CAESAR...​

Did a fake Mexican-financed wall builder play a role in tearing down Jefferson's?

For, verily, I proclaim unto you
"I did try and f*ck her, she was married...
And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything...
Grab them by the p*ssy. You can do anything!"
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Has there been backsliding from patriotic, fundamental principles?

One religious sect that has been increasing politically-intrusive, Southern Baptists, lost nearly half a million members in 2022

The long, slow decline of the nation’s largest Protestant denomination continues.

Membership in the Southern Baptist Convention was down by nearly half a million in 2022…

the SBC had 13.2 million members in 2022, down from 13.68 million in 2021. That loss of 457,371 members is the largest in more than a century…​

Once a denomination of 16.3 million, the SBC has declined by 1.5 million members since 2018, and by more than 3 million members since 2006. The COVID-19 pandemic played a role in the downturn, as did the reality that as older members die off, there are fewer young people to replace them.​

[https://religionnews.com/2023/05/09...ned-by-nearly-half-a-million-members-in-2022/]​

What remain the nation's largest Protestant denomination is still adamant that a woman should submit to the will of her man, even if he’s a flaming anal aperture.

It decrees that a woman’s reproductive freedom should be abrogated to politicians, predominantly men, of course.

It vehemently opposes gender equality in marriage, of course, in contrast to the overwhelming majority of Americans who are supportive of it.

Record-High 70% in U.S. Support Same-Sex Marriage
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Dominated by aging white men without a college degree, it is in denial of scientific awareness, particularly in climatology and medicine that recognizes conditions such as gender dysphoria, and the thumpers insist that children suffering from the condition must be neglected rather than treated.

It’s hardly surprising that their veneration of a court-declared sexual abuser remains fanatical.

The shrinking Southern Baptist Convention remains a seething hotbed of Trumpery,

Bart Barber, after being re-elected president of the Southern Baptist Convention, called Trump “a demonstrably evil man.”

[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/southe...-president-bart-barber-60-minutes-2022-10-09/]

“He’s vain, vulgar, vicious and vindictive,” Al Jackson, a retired pastor from Auburn, Alabama succinctly summed up the sore loser of the 2020 presidential election.

[https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...is-doubling-down-on-the-culture-wars-00104174]

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
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Religion is the unguarded backdoor to totalitarianism. You let them into your life with their smiles and their promises and then they want to control every aspect of your life. Muslims are by far the worse directly followed by Southern Baptists.

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". What we are seeing now is more clarification on the "free exercise" part. That does not make us a theocracy.

 

No. Just because you keep failing to get everyone to join your 'hate Trump' church doesn't mean the rest of the country is a 'theocracy'

 

The authoritarianism of the activist Supreme Court is repugnant to most freedom-loving Americans.

Supreme Court approval drops to all-time low: poll​

 

Your worshipful devotion to the Loser is irrelevant. The sore loser is being dealt with by the impartial application of the law.

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So? The reason they are appointed for life is to insulate them from the whims of the masses.

 

Impartial

RFK has my vote if he makes it there. But folks like you are making it really hard to not vote Trump.

 

Nobody can argue that denying service is an expression of Christianity.

Christianity is based on Jesus.

Jesus clearly demonstrated and explicitly demanded service to those who are sinners, who are criminals, who are sick, who are poor.

I don't know what religion you are referring to, but it sure as hell isn't Christianity.

 

current religion of climate change.

 

Is the United States becoming a theocracy?

No.

 

We're seeing this USSC's move to allow claims of religion to be considered above clear statements in our constitution.

You have no argument for your claim here.

Beyond that, the USSC's ruling on Roe and other issues follows a minority opinion held by the religious, with Justice Thomas and others calling for more such cases where the court can rule on our society based on the Bible, not the constitution.

 

Any other RWNJ talking points you want to parrot apropos of nothing?

 

Well, to begin with, you're not interacting with a religious man. I'm agnostic. I have nothing against peaceful religion and religious people, but I don't subscribe to their beliefs. So with that said ...

First of all, we know the definition of a theocracy, and we are not a theocracy. And there is no popular movement to turn the power of our government over to a particular religion (like Iran, for example). My one word answer to the OP was motivated by the absurdity of the question.

Now, are some people influenced by their religion to believe certain things about politics? Sure. That has been true since our founding. Look at the opening words of the Declaration of Independence, for example. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights ..."

Enough said on that. Now, to a couple of recent SC decisions.

I assume you know the difference between a "constructionist" interpretation of the Constitution versus the "living document" belief.

I am a constructionist. In the United States, strict constructionism is a particular legal philosophy of judicial interpretation that limits or restricts such interpretation only to the exact wording of the law (namely the Constitution).

And consistent with that constructionist POV, I believe in a strict separation of powers between the three branches of government. I believe that none of them should tread upon the role of the others.

On the abortion decision and the conflict involving the web designer who wouldn't make a LGBTQ website, I believe the SC made correct decisions. I believe this on purely technical grounds, not religious grounds. They conform to my constructionist POV. Religious people may have wanted these decisions for religious reasons, but I support these decisions because I believe they are both technically correct. I can expand on that in another reply if you wish.

And that is why, no, we are not becoming a theocracy.

 

The SCOTUS has always been 'authoritarian' in the sense that its rulings are binding on the whole nation. Guess what, that applies for when we had a Liberal SCOTUS as well. So, you want to abolish the court like I do? Because we need to abolish SCOTUS.

 

The court does not have the power to force compliance with its rulings.

That authoritarian prerogative is assigned to other branches of government under the Constitution.

 

Perhaps, but it's recognized as such by the nation. It's the Supreme ruling, and we must enforce that ruling. But even if we(and by we, I mean the state's officials) enforce the ruling, it is still the ultimate ruling of rulings.

And to me, as an American growing up in America I agree with Thomas Jefferson that as an 'overseer', it effectively holds a higher standing than Congress and therefore the legislature, and therefore us the people.

It was a mistake in the checks and balances. The House/Senate are enough.

 

The primary authoritarian danger to the nation is not the usurpation of freedom by politicians who try to dictate to scientists, medical professionals, educators, librarians, private enterprise, Americans with wombs, etc. - as authoritarian as such arrogations obviously are.

The primary authoritarian danger is from individuals who participate in the democratic process, yet have no respect for the will of the People, even after every state certifies its result, following dozens of court challenges, recounts, audits, etc.

Irrational insistence that the democratic process is invalid when one loses is the basis of authoritarianism.

 

This has to deal with our SCOTUS discussion, how?

 

Sorry for cutting that short. I do believe some of that is important.

BUT.

We ARE a theocracy if religion is held higher than our constitution.

When we make the claims of beliefs of an individual all that it takes to ignore our constitution, our constitution becomes no more than a suggestion.

Putting it another way, our government can not decide what is religion and what is NOT religion or what is legitimately a religious concern. Religious belief is totally personal. It's not up for review by some judge. We don't have ANY public accommodation or employment law if all that is needed to ignore the constitution is for the individual to claim that it is against their religion. Arizona passed a bill along these lines (vetoed by their governor). A religious override was explicitly declared for land use and other limits we have in place in order to have an orderly society. It would have become completely legal for your neighbor to have a naked pig roast in the front yard, with calls to worship that could be heard around the town.

Putting it another way, Jesus defines Christianity. Jesus ordered his followers to help those who need help, regardless of how disgustingly sinful they are. And, Matthew records that Jesus states that failure in this regard will result in Christians going to hell. When the claim is that it is Christianity that is at stake (like in the web designer case), what's being done doesn't even conform to that religion. Why didn't Justice Barrett point that out?

Putting it another way, why is the USSC stating that Colorado's constitution is unconstitutional? Colorado's constitution proscribes discrimination in public accommodation when it is based on the very factors that the web designer claimed. Now, we have the USSC demanding that Colorado must allow discrimination when the offended party claims a religious exemption from the constitution? How is Colorado supposed to write THAT into their constitution such that it meets the demands of the USSC? Are they supposed to add a statement that the constitutional proscriptions of discrimination are moot if the individual doesn't see them as comporting with their personal religious beliefs? What does THAT mean?

 

The discussion is about the authoritarian, theocratic devolution in the U.S., and the concurrent contempt for democracy by a losing faction.

Do you agree that a confirmed loser in a presidential election should concede his loss, as had been the case from 1789 until 2020?

Evangelicals told Trump he was "chosen" by God.
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Yes, and it's not just presidential elections. It'd been the tradition of local elections and state elections to congratulate the certified winner and to have a peaceful transfer of the office being held.

 

I've never had a southern baptist knock on my door but if you entertain a Jehovah witness they will be back

 

If you will admit that the United States is running the risk of becoming a police state because of the conduct and the policies of the FBI and the DOJ, we can start talking about the United States becoming a theocracy.

I might remind you that the founders of this country were Christians who believed in the Ten Commandments and morality taught as a part of the Christian faith. Therefore it should not be surprising that those teachings are the basis of our laws.

 

Let's hope following the authoritarian, anti-democratic paradigm of a Bolsonaro does not become the pattern of losers in the U.S.

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