Germany mulls reintroduction of compulsory military service

Which should have been refused. Nothing builds tensions like increasing the strength of an alliance.

 

This is bullshit spinoff of Trump at his best. Interestingly enough, these European leaders started checking their hole cards after the Trump remark which is exactly the reaction he wanted. If we're in this thing together then everybody grab hold and pull. It will result in a stronger presence in Europe which is what NATO was all about anyway.

 

Yes, they started preparing for Plan-B when Trump said he would dishonor the alliance. The trust is broken, and without it, the alliance is useless. They SHOULD create their own alliance, and if its what American voters want too, then why not? Who needs a whiny / untrustworthy partner?

 

Free people have the right to defend their freedom.
“We shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of liberty.”
― John F. Kennedy

 

Trump upheld the honor of the alliance. The only countries that should have been worried are the ones that weren't meeting their pledges.

 

Yeah, well, then they have to face the consequences, which in this case is heightened tensions and possible war in Europe that their actions are bringing on. Seems pretty stupid to me.

 

You and I seem to have different values.
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself.”
― John Stuart Mill

 

Sure man. Heh-heh

 

Germany is unable to fill the ranks in the Bundeswehr and the draft system also strengthened the social security system. In 1992, the time I was conscripted, you could choose to got to the army for 15 months or to do civil service for 18 months. Civil service (Zivildienst) meant to work in hospitals, care centers or kindergartens.

 

That's true. With the USA it would be better of course, but if they get stuck in self splendid isolation we will be prepared.

 

Compulsory service is not service to the country or the people, its service to the state. People volunteer to serve their people. Subjects are coerced to serve the state.

I hope neither Germany nor any other 'free' country forces people to fight for it. If a govt can't raise a defense force without threatenning violence against those it claims to defend, then a new govt is needed anyway.

 

Maybe they see it more as an honored citizens duty to ensure the safety and freedoms of their country and people. Defending your country and people has been a man's duty since the age of the cave men. Very few countries have the luxury to let people say "meh, not me, - you go". Building alliances is an option for smaller countries to allow some people to refuse, but even they they risk of losing everything when face with a more powerful enemy. Ukraine saw the writing on the wall and enacted conscription in 2014 and without it, they would have lost the wat a long time ago.

Its not so much about "forcing to fight", as it is about "preparing for the worst". US Constitution mandates the government to provide for national defense and we are lucky we have such large population that we can rely on volunteers only, although even that changed only as recently as 1973. How would a country with population of 5 million fare against a neighbor of 150 million people when it came to war?

 

That's why we have a heavily armed populace. America will never be invaded, because any invasion would face the mother of all insurgenices. There isn't a nation on this planet that could hope to take over the USA with how heavily armed we are as private citizens. that is another reason why no draft is needed. If a draft is needed, it is to coerce people to fight an unnecessary war. If it is seen by the American PEOPLE (Not the damn politicians) as necessary, they will volunteer. If they don't, its not a necessary war. Our armed populace is enough to prevent any chance of invasion taking place.

 

No, it's not. We spend massive amounts of money on a military which provides us with an overwhelming advantage over any potential enemy.

We will never be invaded because our enemies know they would never get anywhere near the US alive. See above.

If that was true we would not need to spend $900B every year on defense. We could just have our 300lb AR-15 owners stand guard out beaches and repeal invasion armies. They'll shoot down any bomber from any any altitude, even 30 000ft.

Tell that to those who fought to defend their countries when they were attacked, like Finns when USSR attacked in 1939. Or tell it to the Ukrainians. Tell them it was not necessary to fight for their country and their freedoms. Tell it to the Polish who at least tried to fight the Nazis, They would have just said its not necessary, and hand over the Jews and the keys to every city. It was not necessary for USSR to fight Nazis, when they could have just surrendered their country on Day-1

Just about any man in any country is willing to fight for their country, family and freedoms when the enemy is at the gates. What many are hesitant to do is train for it during peace time. They don't think there will ever be a war, but if there is, it will be too late if you are not prepared.

 

Lol, we are more than prepared with our all-volunteer force. That, along with a heavily armed populace, is all we need. No draft is needed, ever. You seriously think China or Russia would be able to invade the USA successfully? No way in hell. No draft will ever be needed.

 

Sure, we are blessed with a population of 340 million and a massive economy where we can afford to pay our volunteers a fair wage + other benefits (they are paid professionals, so the word "volunteer" is somewhat misleading). Most other countries have populations only few million, and yet need to be able to defend themselves, hence the need for conscription.

Um....yes...we are talking about Germany, not the US. I already said we have the advantage of having an overwhelmingly powerful military and an enemy would not get anywhere near US shores.

 

Same goes for other countries. If they feel the fight is worth it, they will volunteer. If not, then they will live under a different regime. That should be up to the individual. That will make it a vote on whether they stand or fall.

 

People who won't fight are choosing to accept rule by the invader over risking their own life. That should be their choice, and if their choice leads to the country's defeat, its because the invading power isn't worse enough than the current power to be worth fighting. People will defend a good government from being replaced by a bad govt. If they won't fight, its probably because their current govt isnt much better. Being forced to fight is not any more honorable than being forced to work. No one ever described slavery as 'honorable'...

 

Do you know the meaning of togetherness or society?
There are duties if you want to be a member of a society. There aren't if you live as prepper in north eastern Alaska.

 

Germany is not discussing to re-introduce consription. We discuss the temporary duty to serve the society. This could be military service, but also working in a kindergarten, with elderly, dement people, in the Red Cross or the fire fighters, for environmental issues an so on. Just as one likes best.

 

I fully intend to protect my community should war ever come here. I'll even feed em some, too (that's part of prepping, btw, are you not prepping for your community???). But I'll be fighting for myself and my neighbors, not for my horrible government. And it will be my choice to do so, not because I just wanna stay out of the gulag.

How do you feel about being forced to work? That used to be called slavery. How is being forced to fight any different?

 

There are more threats to a society or a community, if you don't like societies. Earthquakes, fires, or a collapsed gouvernment. In times of big dangers it'll be fine if not only pros can ride a caterpillar or clean wounds.

Interesting. 10 days PTO, contract at will, no maternity leave at all, a minimum wage that is far to low to live from, paying waiters 2.13$, or prisoners some cents, and you want me to teach what slavery would be?

Sir, I'm engaged in local cultural, historical customs and traditions. I don't get money for this work. The town in which I'm living is glad for our work. But everytime he wants something to be organised the major of the city has to be polite and to beg. And even if, we make it our own way. Is this slavery?

 

I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting that only government conscripts "can ride a caterpillar or clean wounds"? We used to have this wonderful program called Civil Defense where the govt trained and equipped civilians to respond to all manner of disasters, military and otherwise, that might befall their local communities. Then Kennedy was assassinated and the program was defunded and replaced with the perpetual failure known as FEMA. Due in part to FEMA's awful history of failing to adequately respond to disasters, millions of American 'preppers' have taken it upon themselves to stock food, ammo, medical supplies, communications, guns and ammunition. This all with no FedGov required (and often much to FedGov's apparent consternation...). How exactly does this factor in to whether or not we need the govt to force people to go get shelled in trench?

That's admirable. Also, it sounds voluntary to me. You can quit if you want, right? Are you doing it because you enjoy or benefit from helping your community, or because someone is threatenning you with prison if you stop?

 

29 million Germans work voluntarily and without payment for their communities. I used to organize two youth groups and several summer camps in the 90s.

 

And we LIVED. Communism is practiced by a few countries and we're still alive, holy crap. The Cold War was an unmitigated disaster:

-It would develop the blocs of tension leading to the current crisis
-It would lead to the creation of Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, ISIS, etc.
-It would create smaller nations, most of whom dependent upon the US.

It was preferable to have the Soviets maintain control of Eurasia and Southeast Asia. At least then, the disruptions around the world would have been less.

Think of the stability we have in the America's. That is primarily due to our undisputed status as the predominant power across the American continents.

The only way small nations can exist, is with the grace of larger ones. And the best chance of large nations giving grace to smaller nations, is if those nations don't pose a threat.