Is Jesus divine?

Jesus mission was to lay down his life, as were his Apostles in testimonial to his mission. Joseph Smiths mission was the restoration of Gods work and Church in the latter days, which he accomplished or which God accomplished thru him.

Your anti LDS propaganda is purely adverse in spirit and outside of context. The Church suffered severe persecution from its beginnings. Every effort by the Church to get legal protections from city, state or federal was rebuffed. Smith was essentially told, sorry you're on your own, even while the anti LDS sentiment and violence increased. The Church and Smith moved to Nauvoo Illinois and elected Smith as Mayor. The Press which Smith had legally dismantled was due to their publishing inflammatory articles which articles served to increase the threat of violence against the Church. Likewise Smiths call for martial law. It was not violent or to cause violence, but to prevent it because all civil authority outside the Church turned a deaf ear to their plight.

Your interpretation of scripture is your own interpretation which may suit you and drive your judgment, but it doesn't validate it. As for Billy Graham, I have no cause to think that he knew God or God him. So in that stead he merely reflected what is written which he didn't even understand. Anyone can wave the Bible which to me is a classic bait and switch or flashing a badge. I can read. And there are tens of thousands of denominations, all different from one another in doctrine and understanding. So it is gossip and babel. And gossip and babel in the wake of scripture is hardly doing more than Jesus. It is pathetic, actually. I'm astonished that anyone would be fooled by it.

And yes, I don't gamble with the eternal welfare of my soul. My trust is in the living God who is the only person who has ever known me. My trust is not in the Bible which is only words of paper, neither in myself.

 

How do you know that. By the written word. Was anyone alive today there to see 'miracles'. Oral proclamation relied on what the Bible taught. There are things written in history that have been proven incorrect. Many inflated stories for people to believe. Jesus believed the story of Jonah because he had been taught it. With modern study of the ancient world it makes no sense except as an allegory. Did Jesus do miracles or were these stories to inflate his reputation as a teacher. Outside of the Bible we don't hear of these miracles.

 

History (from extraneous sources) informs us of it.

The “written word” didn’t exist to the masses during the formative years of the Christian movement.

You know this how?

Not true. There are still those who perform miracles today. You probably don’t expose yourself to these circles.

 

How are you different? Without your experience of being visited by god, would you believe?

 

Only in as much as it is wrongly perceived. If you are just a bunch of cells that upon death you will cease to be, then you are an illusion. And there is no "you". That would make you something along the lines of a character in a dream. Everyone else as well.

As for me, I was converted by Gods spirit to know he is real, before knowing anything scriptural. So your position that a testimony of God is based on scripture is not true. I am proof of that. The weakness in your reasoning is that it precludes the existence of God. And this is something which you cannot know. Yet you hold to it. Therefore all your conclusions are jaded from the start.

 

I would acknowledge the possibility of a God but not go so far as to blindly believe. I would acknowledge the possibility based on my own lack of knowing all things. And I wouldn't go so far as to blindly believe for the same reason....so as not to be misled. Such is our or my predicament. We are vulnerable. And depending on the spirit that motivates us, we can deceive and be deceived.

This is why I have a measure of respect for Atheistic prudence. It's about self preservation. And even though Atheists go too far in attacking the concept of God. It is clear to me that it is defensive in nature in owing to the threats of punishment and hell and such, as is often told by those who wield the written word like a club. In so doing, they (Christians) give God as bad a name as any nonbeliever can utter. So, often the most godless are those who pretend to be the most godly. At least Atheists don't attempt to cheat others with tens of thousands of different false Christs and false hopes as is found in traditional bible based religion. Collectively it is a kaleidoscope of babel. And there is no real God in it.

Jesus himself said, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity", Matthew 7. There is a great truth in this, in that the champion of Christianity is presenting himself as the chief advocate of Atheists and everyone else in regards to false servants of God. Take it or leave it. But I would consider Jesus words a shield to all, and a warning to the self righteous.

 

Speaks for itself.

 

BTW, I've listened to Billy Graham. And I think that he's a decent person. He just isn't my preacher.

 

I have come into contact over the years with a great many people that made Jesus the Lord of their life from a Billy Graham Crusade. His son, Franklin continues the ministry in so many ways, all over the World. They were affiliated with Baptists and I have never been close to being a part of the denomination........but I know for a fact they are a continuation of the work of the "Body of Christ".

 

Paul wrote his letters and they were copied and read in churches throughout the early churches. What makes you think that THE MASSES were concerned. The poor were more concerned with surviving the breadline.
Most ot the extraneous sources simply claim that Jesus disciples believed he was the Messiah. Early churches naturally claimed he was.
I've certainly been to healing meetings led by those who claim god heals through them. I've yet to see a real miracle as opposed to faith healing which demands belief. And the brain can do a lot to help the body recover from 'illnesses'.

I understand you believe what the Bible tells you but do you really study the stories in the Bible against the background on which the Bible was written.
For instance study the story of Jonah. It was simply an allegory. What concern was Nineveh to the god of Israel? It was 600 miles distant from Israel. It had different gods. At the time - until the Babylonian exile - the Jews believed Jahweh was confined to the borders of Israel. Nineveh was never converted to Judaism.
The story was written after the fall of Nineveh so predictions were 'fulfilled' and after the Babylonian exile.

 

That's traditional reasoning. But respectfully, your tradition isn't my God.

 

I know. My God loves me and is for me.....nuff said.

 

That's another 2 gods added to the list. Atheism isn't so bad after all.

 

You want to talk about traditions.... I decided to work with Gideons. They are the ones that put a Bible in every Hotel Room and give them freely to nursing Homes etc. I was passing them out in a nursing home as well as visiting and talking to many of the patients. I was told to move along because that was not my job. It was just to pass out Bibles. That is what tradition does. It is a mission of "works". You know what else? I was told to wear a white shirt and tie next time. I don't even own a white shirt or a tie.That too is what tradition does. You know what I told them? I told them "if I wear a white shirt and tie, I will look just like the Mormons on their mission. I'm done" That is what tradition is all about. Mormonism is steeped in tradition and ritual. I cannot ever imagine Jesus telling His disciples how to dress and dress uniformly. I don't even know why the Pope wears a funny hat!I just wonder, when Mormons come to my door, and they do, why don't they just lay it all out about getting sealed in the Temple, the secret rituals, and that I must wear an undergarment for protection? You talk about tradition! That is why I only attend interdenominational Houses of worship.
A friend of mine who is a Believer once told me, "the demons of Hell cannot touch the Word of God, but the "traditions of men" can make it of little effect.
He is so right!

 

Which one do you prefer? Or is it the faith of atheism.?

 

God loves everyone.

 

He is FOR me and does not lead me astray!

 

I believe you Yab. He doesn't lead anyone astray. "He leads us not into temptation, but delivers us from evil."

 

Which God Injeun ..? and Does this God love Satan .. as much as God Supreme ?

Who is "He" ? .. I thought the primordial uncreated God was sexless ? . so are you referring to the Chief God on earth .. Ha Satan ? and is this God male ? .. and why do you think the tester of souls has not led you astray .. given you don't even know the name of your God .. who your God is .. what this Gods word is.

Right Injeun .. nice quote .. except you cherry picked out the "Hallowed be thy Name" -- same question to Yab --- what is the name of this God you keep going on about .. the one not lead you into temptation .. cause you so much smarter than the tester of souls ..she not able to trick you no how .. you got one up on the greatest deceiver that ever walked the earth .. .. but you have yet to come up with on thing Joseph added to our knowledge of how to achieve salvation.. some divine revelation that is .. yet you keep telling us it is from above .. rather than the tester of souls.

The name lads "Hallowed be thy Name" --- and what is that name .. the identity of "The Father"

 

Doubtful.
There are many "temptations" and "trials" that the Judeo-Christian God has prepared for us and are apparently inevitable - the Tribulation, the Antichrist, the Apocalypse, the abomination that leads to desolation, etc. Take for example "the mark of the beast" - 666. Jesus (well, St. John on behalf of Jesus) EXPLICITLY warned us that it is coming and we cannot escape it, and not to take it or else we will burn in Hell. Doesn't seem to me like "leads us not into temptation, but delivers us from evil."
So, when the time comes and they start stamping people with 666 you'd better be and outcast and die a hungry death than take the mark and burn in Hell. Better prаy to God to take your life and "deliver you from evil".
Please, remember that.

 

Their was no Antichrist until Christianity came along obviously. Satan in the OT was appointed by God to test mens faith. This is what Jews believed he did. He was Jahwehs servant in this matter. I suggest that Matthews 'temptation' story was a fanciful story to make Jesus divine. Jesus was TESTED as all men were. 'Lucifer' in the OT is known to have been a Babylonian boastful king who failed anyway.

 

Good .. wonderful .. then if tradition isn't your God ---- who then is your God .. what is the name of this God .. and what is the name of the God who may have led you astray .. as you say into temptation.

 

There is only one true God. I know him by his spirit because his spirit has known me. So I don't know him by reading, hearing, reason, surmising, conclusion, or the traditions of the Church's of men. I am not a practitioner or product of religious cosplay.

The Apostle Paul said that scriptures are good for the man of God. But that doesn't mean that reading and studying scriptures makes you a man of God. If raw meat is good for a lion, it doesn't mean that eating raw meat will make you a lion. You must first be a lion or man of God. Outside this is pretending. That pretentiousness is the state of traditional Christianity, which is Christian by proclamation only, and not in truth and spirit. The collective disparity in their teachings, in that they all differ from one another is evidence they are not one in God. But they procrastinate acknowledging this fact so as to maintain the illusion of cohesion and not risk destabilizing their own conclusions and beliefs. Yet they judge upon shaky ground. My Gods name is truth. What is yours, Gif?

 

Good grief what a painful vison of the Christian God .. leading one into temptation - delivering one into evil - deceiving the world and then roasting those who fall for this deception in hell for eternity

"Please Remember" - that you can not outwit the Greatest of deceivers .. with Godly powers .. Chief God over the earth.
"Please Remember" - that if you think you can win such a battle .. same battle Adam and Ever were thrown into .. you have truly been deceived.

 

I don't follow your rationale. If he warns of temptation and tells us not to participate. Then he is leading us away from temptation and delivering us from evil. It might also be that he doesn't punish us for the mark as much as getting the mark will send us on a path towards corruption which will wind us up in hell by having changed our natures over the course.