NATO considers shooting down Russian missiles.

Would you say Trump is pretty much a classical conservative?

Is the classical conservative position to fix the economy first and
hope that is the best solution for everyone rich or poor?
That appears to work over here in the USA except in the healthcare
industry with contains some excellent people but financially is
just a huge rip off.

Destroying the economy as Biden is doing and then starting wars
to feed money into our 'defense' weapons industry mainly helps
rich people and leaves everyone else in debt as inflation and interest
rates rise. I'm poor but I wish we had Trump back.

 

I wouldn't call Trump a "classical conservative" or actually anyone unless you're talking about people who left a defining imprint on conservativism; Edmund Burke, GK Chesterton, and Russell Kirk come to mind.

Conservatism is a reaction to the excesses of the present day, but what those excesses are changes from generation to generation so to does conservatism change. Trump is conservative, but the latest generation of conservative. The excesses he reacts to are not the same ones that Reagan or Coolidge faced.

 

Exactly my point. Michael steel will vote for Biden and not bow before the orange god, so he can’t be conservative.

There is no conservative ideology in 2024. Conservatism is about bow before orange god.

 

Works out just fine.

 

don't be ridiculous
I'm a conservative and I loath Trump

 

You may be conservative , but MAGA/ GOP in 2024/RNC don’t consider you conservative or republican.

 

So?

Why should I care?

 

So your point is what...a vote for Biden is a vote for conservatism? You seem all over the place. Since you tell me that Michael Steele is conservative tell me in what way he is conservative? You seem to think voting for Biden is, but that just goes to show how far off the mark you are.

 

I am not conservative, I don’t care what conservatism is or not.

But what I can tell you is today in 2024 conservatism = Worship Trump. bow to "“Twice impeached, P*** grabbing, overthrowing US democracy, nuclear secrets stealing orange god”. "

 

I think it’s difficult to categorise Trump politically, he seems to appeal mostly to the poorer and more deprived white voters in the US and with good reason, they feel marginalised and let down by the decades of politicians and their policies.

Trump is first and foremostly a businessman with a thirsting craving for power, political allegiance, beliefs and policies are all secondary, he just wants to win and wield power.

 

You can pick faults in anyone, especially a public figure.

Reality is
Trump started no wars.
Biden approved starting the war in Ukraine, back in 2014, and is interested in other wars.
Trump is on the side of the public
Biden works for his donors.

 

I think Trump didn’t start any wars as he seemed keen to befriend those that are capable of starting them. Diplomacy wise and in terms of foreign policy, you could say he had a great term. Better than Obama and Biden for sure, however, the elephant in the room is that Mr Trump has no agenda other than his own. He broke promises to the American people in his last tenure and caused havoc when he lost the last election.

If you want Trump fair enough, I get it, Biden’s a joke in a lot of areas but Trump is just outright dangerous in terms of defending his own ego

 

Caused Havoc??? You mean comparable to like the war in Ukraine, over 500,000 dead, estimates run up to
a million?

I don't think complaining about election voting fraud makes it to the same place on the Richter scale.

I like your signature

 

I didn’t compare the two, Ukraine has been invaded by a foreign force… The USA hadn’t and hasn’t….apart from maybe the mass immigration that Trump promised to do something about?

Incomparable situations, I think you over estimate USA influence on the world. Russia annexed The Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 and Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia in the mid 00’s. This has been going on slowly but surely for a while.

 

That's ridiculous .. overthrowing US democracy .. p-grabbing .. nuclear secrets stealing ? is what the Republican Party Stands for ? Who is for stealing nuclear secrets in the GOP ? and what is the basis for this ridiculous made up nonsense accusation. ?

followed by - a convincing argument assuring us that you have the faintest idea what "US Democracy" is .. followed by a convincing argument as how this was in danger of being overthrown .. without non sequitur fallacy.

 

The US is the second most powerful nation in terms of it's military in the world, and gets involved in things all over the world. I don't think I overestimated it.

I'll grant you, this is a fun debate because it is about important things instead of the usual blue team vs red team junk.

But I beg to differ. Just because Joe Biden claimed:
"The Russian military has begun a brutal assault on the people of Ukraine without provocation, without justification, without necessity." doesn't make it true.

word 5 'begun', even NATO doesn't tell porkies like that. NATO has stated the war began 8 years earlier.
word 7 'brutal', I recall the 'Russian invasion' was described as disorganized and timid.
words 11-13 'people of Ukraine' the proportion of civilians killed when Russia moved forces in to protect Donetsk was the lowest I've ever heard of for any significant sized conflict in a populated area.

and so on.

'he who lies first lies best'

 

Yes, you've made the point that you don't care what conservatism is multiple times, but still you keep pulling up random MSNBC weirdos and insisting they are conservative. I think you've run out of steam on that particular gambit, and I'm not sure what the point was. If you could have demonstrated that Michael Steele was conservative (he isn't) what point were you trying to make?

 

Mr Putin has been at this for a while…it’s strategic, whilst I can’t prove or disprove the facts of the current invasion of a sovereign nation. I can see that ever since G W Bush left office for some reason Mr Putin started slowly but surely reclaiming land of the former USSR.

As a Brit and after much study of our chequered colonial past, my understanding of it is that Mr Putin would love to bring the USSR back to it’s former glory or at the least set those wheels in motion.

Unfortunately, the English speaking nations of this world are mere mutuals to the rest of the world now, nobody seems to care what we think, Israel, Russia, Palestine, not a one of them are bothered what our leadership think

 

My point is very simple.

Conservatism in 2024 – bow to the “Twice impeached, P*** grabbing, overthrowing US democracy, nuclear secrets stealing orange god”.

 

Given as how you've stated multiple times that you don't care what conservatism is, or what conservatives believe, I will give this incoherent statement all of the due consideration it deserves. Meanwhile maybe you could get back to the actual topic?

 

But every time you reply my post, it tells me you want to hear more about conservatism

As i keep telling you, conservatism in 2024 = bow to “Twice impeached, P*** grabbing, overthrowing US democracy, nuclear secrets stealing orange god”. hope this time you understand what is conservatism . if not reply again and I will explain. I am here to help you . no matter how many time you ask, I am here to help you to see the truth.

 

But as you've made clear, you don't actually know anything about conservatism, and have made the point that you don't want to know.

And you continue to demonstrate it.

 

Thanks for the BBC talking points. It seems your understandings are those fed to you by the media.

 

You're first paragraph contains the same propaganda as we are getting over here.

Third para: you might feel that way, but whilst the US public are arrogant, and believe
things about the outside world that exist only in their own imaginations, that does
not apply the other way around. Pres. Putin is very aware of what is going on in the
US and rest of the world and is restraining his own public who want to do some nasty
things to Ukraine - a complete reversal from the previous week, before the mass
shooting and fire bombing in Crocus City Hall.

 

Incorrect sir, whilst the BBC is the main global platform of British media, we’ve many more, the most reliable and trustworthy being Channel 4 News and GB news, for future reference