Attempted Suicide Rates More Than Double After Gender-Reassignment Surgery: Study

You want proof that it is debatable as to whether or not this is a delusion? Really?

This is so debatable, that as recent as 2012ish the diagnostics and statistics manual (the bible of psychiatry) listed it as a delusion and thus a gender disorder rather than gender dysphoria as it labels it now.

I can provide a link if you like but I assume you MUST already know this.

Hell I will provide one just because...
Special Report: Evolving Controversies in the Treatment of Gender Dysphoric/Incongruent Minors | Psychiatric News (psychiatryonline.org)

 

HAHAHA, the other study mentioned in the OP . . . the one talking about 19 fold increases . . . the author came out years ago saying that it was being misinterpreted.

And of course the article was too dishonest to mention that they also found that significant increase in mortality . . . it ****ing ended in 1989! They kept measuring through 2003. There was no significant increase in mortality. Hm, almost like maybe some social changes were picking up in Sweden around then or something.

 

[/quote]Surely you know that gender dysphoria and transgenderism are not the same thing. Surely you know the APA has been explicit about this, since you seem so fond of the DSM.

And this article does not say that there are no social determinants in depression. Which is what I've been asking you for evidence of.

 

Where are you claiming that someone is conflating gender dysphoria and transgenderism?

At any rate, at that time when this transition was being made I had this conversation with countless psychiatrists. Many disagreed with the change. Many did not. For you to act like all of them were converted to true believers is truly bereft of reality.

It does not work like that. There is legitimate debate in almost all areas of medicine. This type of debate is not confined to gender dysphoria.

 

Is there actual evidence that every person who is trans is so due to mental illness?

 

Try reading again. What is the "it" I'm asking about.

 

When it comes to kids wanting to switch sides, here's who I blame for promoting and celebrating (in other words, brainwashing) them into thinking they're the wrong sex:

Parents
Teachers, school admins, and teachers unions
LGB community (although they're starting to distance themselve from the T people)
Social media and how they made this stuff trendy and fashionable
Activists
Doctors who diagnosed a person being the wrong sex after one visit (we had that story on this board)
The medical complex because there's big bucks in this
Left wing groups
Hollywood
And so on.

Some kids will do anything for attention and acceptance, and I can provide plenty of examples of people who have been brainwashed and needed to be deprogrammed.

 

I did not reply to you in order to have the debate as to whether it is or is not a delusion.

I replied because you responded to someone calling it a mental illness and said that it was the patients fault. My reply to you specifically mentioned the debate about the topic and then stated...

"if in fact their belief is a product of delusion and thus a mental illness, the responsibility would then shift to the professionals tasked with helping those patients."

With "if in fact" being part of my statement, proving it to be a mental illness is not required to make my statement correct.

If in fact it is a mental illness, then the responsibility would be on the treating professional. I suspect you probably agree. There is nothing there to argue.

If you had replied to the person calling it a mental illness and said it is NOT a mental illness and thus it is the patients responsibility, I would have never replied. I only replied to point out if it is a mental illness as that poster had asserted, then the responsibility would NOT be the patients.

 

Yes kids are impressionable. Hence why religion is taught to us so young when we’re most gullible.

 

Yes….IF…IF it’s a mental illness then of course they should be treated accordingly. So far I don’t believe it’s been deemed a mental illness.

 

You were responding to my concept. The "it" involved is from me, not you.

If you are referring to something else, that is on you.

If you have something to say, by all means, say it. I am not interested in riddles.

 

Fair enough. That was my sole point.

 

Yes. Which is why I quoted your OTHER claim about there being NO social determinants to depression. That was your claim. Not something else. It was your claim. That's what I'm asking for evidence for. Setting aside even trans people for a moment, YOU brought up specific claims about DEPRESSION in general that I'm inquiring about. Do you no longer hold this view?

 

But we had moved on from that conversation, stopped, and you jumped into another of my conversations and you argued that there is no debate regarding dysphoria/disorder and it was that topic that you are replying to now.

At any rate, if you insist upon jumping back to the previous conversation...At no point did I say that "there are no social determinants to depression". If that had been your original statement, I would have never replied because It is not a very specific statement. Your claim was very specific and falsely claimed the conclusion to be a product of "research".

You just made up my supposed claim of "there are no social determinants" I said no such thing.

What I said is that there is not any "research" that determines that trans people are suicidal because of how society treats them. I have been extremely specific about the differing wording surrounding this subject, and I have pointed out that there is reasonable speculation as such and even a correlation, but causation being proven? Absolutely not.

The above does NOT equate to "NO social determinants to depression". You were confused the other day about what constitutes a strawman....this is one of them. You are arguing against the notion that there are no social determinants, but that is a point that has not been raised. It looks though as if you are desperately trying to put those words into my mouth so that you can argue against them.

Your problem is that you do not know enough to understand what it is that you do not know.

 

Yes, but your sole point is a big ‘if’.

 

So you think it’s normal?

 

What does it being normal have to do with anything? You realize that's not how we determine what a mental illness is. And just a reminder: your OP has been entirely debunked.

 

What is “normal”? Do I understand the whole trans thing? Nope. Do I agree believe there are more than two genders? Nope. But it’s a big leap to assume that something that is bizarre is a mental illness just because we disagree with it. They don’t impact my life in any way, shape or form so I say live and let live. You want to think you’re the opposite sex you were born? Enjoy yourself.

 

Indeed it is.

Despite you replying to someone that was calling it a mental illness, your answer did not address that notion. I merely took a moment to clarify the difference IF it exists vs IF it does not.

You don't need to make an argument where one does not exist. Clarification is not an insult.

 

Thanks but clarification wasn’t needed. You made an issue where one didn’t exist.

 

Oh for crying out loud.

This is silly. Lets move on.

 

First question: did the study account for sources of suicide outside of being transgender, such as harassment and bullying, or a separate issue such as depression? Secondly did the study separate out those who detransitioned vs those that did not. I'll provide the link later when I get to my laptop, but those who detransition are twice as likely to commit suicide then those who did not. Also, did they look at all transitions, or only those that were the full GCS? All these factors can skew the numbers if not taken into account, particularly the outside causes factor.

 

The first study was never meant to be statistically significant in any way, and it would be absurd to pretend it could be extrapolated to the larger public. I showed that earlier but, of course, crickets. The second study is even more embarrassing for them. The author has repeatedly gone on interviews to talk about how badly her study is being misinterpreted by the transphobic right. Not only that, but the whole trend in that study of suicide rates among trans people DISAPPEARS after 1989. After 1989, that pattern disappears. For the rest of the study, from 1990 to 2003, there was NO significant increase in suicide attempts after surgery. The study proves the opposite of what they say it does.

 

Serious discussions are only for open-minded and curious adults.

 

Which the source has been proven to not be. The Epoch Times was interviewing someone who was just outright lying about the research in question. And the author completely misrepresents the other story as well.