"Poverty in America"... mostly rhetoric

If you want to. Otherwise I can always try and find other sources of info, so far I haven't been able to find a sufficient explanation. I think I have a good idea of how it happened in Greece, but in other countries, not so much.

 

David McWilliams, Follow the Money, is a very good narrative.

This is the second time i've been asked in a week, having it all together won't hurt.

 

Every nation by definition is doing worse than the U.S. economically because we have the world's #1 economy (yes, even today).

 

No the poster said financially , specifically financial difficulties, all the countries listed have lower debt to GDP and a lower deficit, they are doing much better than the US financially.

Please post evidence to the contrary or stop obfusciating.

 

Because in my opinion, as a free market proponent and believer in self-reliance, I don't think the current level of income redistribution is just.

I am more than happy to pay for orphans, developmentally disabled, permanently disabled, the sick, etc., in a legitimate social safety net.

However, this is not what most welfare recipents are. Most can work, but the are institutionalized wards of the state who determined their lot in life by ill-advised choices. This is readilly apparent to anyone who hs spent time in lower-class areas or worked with the poor.

 

Then why are the nations that are introuble implementing austerity measures that target those programs?

 

Because even though the welfare system did not cause the problem, in Ireland the only country on that list which is in trouble, given the new reality we must all tighten our belts.

 

I don't think anyone blamed social programs on economic hardships... not in the USA at least.

That is not what the thread is about.

However, Europe is a different animal entirely, their social welfare model is in fact acutely unsustainable, which is why they are implementing austerrity measures, even Europeans know it:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/european-social-welfare-state-model-running-out-of-time-and-money/

Unfortunately, Europe has already offered a rather robust teet, so it will be very difficult to pull said teet from so many dependant mouths.

Such is always the ultimate manifestation of the futility that is socialism.

Make people dependants, and they will be.

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Theorhetically, everything contributed to the collapse. How can you say "This spent money counts, but this other money doesn't"?

Anyway, are they tackling other, non-social programs?

 

Everything... Don't think their is a single department that has been protected. They are closing the Guarda (police) training college for two years.

 

No our debt ballooning from 25% of GDP to 80% of GDP in three years was not a result of the welfare state or social protection it was due to the mass failure of the Irish banking system.

 

What an egregiously ignorant statement. Seriously, did you even read this before you posted it?

*We brought constitutional democracy to the world

*We have been responsible for more significant inventions and innovations in modern times than any toher nation, and not just by a little, by a lot.

*We have more nobel prizes and olympic medals than any other nation

*Nearly all popular modern art forms and social mechanisms came from here )(rock and roll, jazz, blues, hip-hop, country, television, popular cinema, modern dance, social media, cell phones

*Even our wardrobe, look around the world everyone dresses like we do, especially european youths, LOL

*We defeated imperialism, facism, communism, and seem to be the only one's to really stand against terrorism

*we are the world's # 1 economy, medical provider, industial power, military power, and science power

*we ushered in, and still rule, the computer age

*we provided the world with the world wide web

*we are responsible for what many consider mankinds greatest acheivement: putting a man on the moon.

So, perhaps you are too blinded by your self-hating, anti-american agenda, but not only are you wrong about our traditions, you are seemingly willfully ignorant of it.

Not only do we have a strong tradition, but we have the strongest tradition forged in the shortest amount of time of any nation... ever.

Wholly impressive.

 

Well that sucks... of all of the nations of Europe, I think Americans tend to care just a tad more about the UK and Ireland, it is sad to see this reach the islands.

So much of the USA was forged by the Irish, they were one of our larget immigrant groups, and many, many Americans (including me) pump irish blood through their veins today.

 

The physical and mental ability to do unskilled labor at least.

 

junobet

Uh, not really, they are both components of the same argument, and they are both true. Not only that, they are respective of each other, i. e. economics are zero-sum, so folks better understand this and make good choices, lest they leave themselves vulnerable to financial non-viability. By the way, I don't think that you are accurately representing income distribution, a lot f the developed world is in the middle class, sso it is not all a rich cabal vs. the rest of the world as measly peasants.

It's not one or the other, both exist.

Uh, again, LOL, not really desperate, it makes a lot of sense, you just don't like it. "Just" trumps "Fair". Both concepts can be subjective, but I think "Just" is easier to pin down and is more inherently detectable to a reasonable person than an idea like "fair".

I wouldn't like it, but that is the life they chose, that is the key. By the way, the children should be taken care of. The destitute mother and the drug addict need to understand that there are consequences for their choices. Everyone does.


To counter your questions here is one for you:

Well Juno, you never actually answered my question, but I will be happy to answer yours:

As much as you and I would find this scenario rather unsavory and off-putting, the truth is that yes that is fair. Here is the reason: That drug-fuelled playboy's father worked hard, sacrificed, and took significant risk to be succesful, and he has a right to do exactly with the money he earned whatever he wants, even wasting it on a spoiled kid. Also, keep in mind that this guys father was already taxed at the highest rate, because in the USA the rich pay the highest percentage due to our progressive tax system.

Compare that to the government coming in, taking the money that he risked a lot for, sacrificed for, and worked his whole life for, and giving it to a P.O.S. high school dropout who chose to focus his like on meth and XBox.

This is a different issue.

Yes, I agree and that is how it is here too, but that does not mean that the tax money should be used on those that do not need welfare, which is the group I am talking about.

 

OK ..........................................
HowAbout the UnEmployed ?

20 Help Wanted Adds - 10,000 Applicants
Their Jobs went SOUTH - figuratively speaking
< North, East & West>Those Jobs NO longer Exist

People are just ....................................................
excess baggage to the AssHoles who pull the Strings
HowAbout the Legitimately UnEmployed ?​

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We agree AGAIN !

Now - "It's about the company you keep"

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Since we are usually on the same side and I am as far from an American hating azzhole that anyone could be, methinks you are confused about the meaning of tradition.

tra·di·tion (tr-dshn)
n.
1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

Now that you have been informed of the definition of tradition, we expect that you will NOT again mistake tradition for invention, or innovation. Those we do have in abundance. It is tradition, and a sense of history we lack.

 

Well - On second thought
in some respects "Dan40" might have a point

The United States use to have a tradition of
Government, Of, For, & By the people

It has been Co-Opted by a Powerful Elite
& has been, bent, twisted, forced & morphed into
Government, Of, For, & By the Corporations

We use to have a Self Reliant Citizenry who treasured their Rights & Freedoms
NOW we have a Dumbed Down Populous - Polarized & Paranoid by Propaganda
All to ready to surrender their Liberty, Rights & Freedoms for some mote of promised Security

They seem to stand DUMB & Unaware, as a Police State is being constructed around them

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Why are so many opposed to actually eliminating official poverty instead of simply waging a war on poverty and providing for the appearance of doing something about poverty with our tax dollars, for over thirty years.

 

Ok. Come to Britain, get sick, get a life-saving operation and you can have a choice; pay nothing for it, or pay through the nose-for exactly the same level of care.
Which is the unjust part?

 

There's quite a lot wrong with this post; I'll pick a few salient items. The world-wide web was in fact invented by an Englishman whom, coincidentally, I was at school with.
The Moon landings were a big 'so what'; unless you consider sticking a finger up at the Russians worth the effort and expense.
You didn't defeat Communism; it imploded all by itself.
Constitutional democracy was in place before America was even discovered. You heard of Greece?

You did, however, bring us the Fender Telecaster, 1959 Chevrolet Impala and the Cheeseburger. I'm grateful for all three...especially the Tele.

 

Our welfare state model seems to have been 'acutely unsustainable' since 1948. I daresay it will continue to be so.

 

You can thank NAFTA and Clinton for that, I hate NAFTA.

The unemployed tend to find work no matter what. I was laid off consecutively in 2007 and 2008 from professional banking and finance jobs after the crash, and those jobs are particularly hard to find, even for this this economy.

After my 2nd layoff, I worked in a factory that bagged kitty litter and industrial absorbants litter until I could find a job withinn my career field. That is what you have to do to make things happen, swallow your pride and get any job you can until you can move back up.

 

OK my bad, perhaps the 1st line was a bit egregious on my part. I ageee we tend to agree on most things here, and I see what you are saying. However, I would maintain that we do have a very strong tradition, but a short one. I think my examples sort of underpin the traditions that we have started.

Or maybe we can say that we have established some of opur own very strong, new traditions that will be honored in the years to come?