Tell me...What would YOU do about this economic mess?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ELOrocks17, Jul 29, 2011.

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  1. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    If the government does not have enough tax income then the government has deficit spending and eventually debt. There's nothing that says we must have X$ in taxation. You are focusing on a % of GDP but this is not correct because this does not reflect how much spending there might be. This nation and it's citizenry do not have a clear understanding of the mission of the USA. Is it our mission to have 3-5 senseless wars dragging on for years? Is it our mission to have a 70% high school graduation rate? We are not asking ourselves what the USA needs to look like in 20-30 years, and today putting in place legislation that allows us to achieve this. If we would define our mission, this will define our expenses, and this will determine how much tax income is needed...not a simple percentage of GDP...
     
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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  3. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    Well, federal outlays under Obama in his first two years averaged just over 24% of the GDP, which is a problem. In relation to the average federal revenue levels as percentage of GDP under Obama, which is 15.2%, I think it is clear that the Bush Tax Cuts need to expire, and a modest tax increase is needed.
     
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I'm not smart enough to get into the details of budget reductions. All I know is that as a nation we must clearly define what it is we should be doing, then take actions to achieve these goals, and to fund this action without too much deficit spending. I know what "I" prefer but "I" don't really count that much when we're trying to make decisions for 308 million Americans...
     
  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree. I do not like continued deficit spending but this becomes moot when we have recessionary-type economic issues...which we cannot ignore.

    What I don't like about Obama and Congress is they won't even try to reduce today's spending. I remember when Obama was a presidential candidate and he PROMISED that if elected HE would go through the budget line-item by line-item...was this done...what was the outcome? It's like the stupid USPS losing $8 billion or whatever number it was...do something about it!! We don't need mail service on Saturdays...cancel it! We don't need a manned post office in every bum(*)(*)(*)(*) rural corner of the USA! Let's stop all junk mail...how much does this cost to process...if we didn't have it would our economy skip a single beat...I don't think so. Or if they wish to continue junk mail then charge them the same rates they charge me! The point is DO SOMETHING INSTEAD OF NOTHING!

    I think tax increases prior to them becoming the last option should be avoided until then. But in five seconds time government can slow spending...
     
  6. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    I am more of an all-of-the-above person when it comes to deficit and debt reduction. I will consider all spending cuts and reforms that can lead to spending cuts. I will consider tax increases and tax cuts that are necessary for various reasons. I will consider comprehensive tax reform to create an IRS Tax Code free of loopholes. I will consider tax innovation, which can include clever revisions and reforms that can lead to an increase in our tax revenue and our GDP. I will consider consider agency and program consolidation to make our federal bureaucracy more efficient and economical. I will consider government stimulus for both the private and public sectors. I will consider a balanced budget amendment if proposed at an appropriate time. I will consider defunding ObamaCare, or reforming it significantly to eliminate exhorbitant bureaucracy.

    This is the kind of approach that our government should be taking. We should be examining all of our options for resolving the problems within the economy, and choose the policies that will work the best in practice, not on paper.
     
  7. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Inflation of disastrous levels is on the way anyway. That's why the central bank debacle and protectionism must be remedied at same time. The only thing we export is agriculture precisely because it is the only protected industry left. Make sure you consider that as you believe the robber baron's tools.
     
  8. tblount

    tblount New Member

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  9. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    Do you believe you can tax yourself to prosperity? If so... then we should collect 100% taxes and live the good life.

    Tax dollars removed from the private sector are most likely to be wasted, blown up, abused, stolen, used to reward failure, unproductive, laziness and dependency.

    The roll of government is NOT to take money out of productivity but to regulate / referee fair exchange between buyer and seller. Since citizens have lost the economic power to support the government, clearly government has failed. When something fails to fulfill it's purpose of creation it is discarded. Thrown in the trash. That's what a LOT of AMERICANS WANT to happen to the government. I saw a pole that said 100% of the people who took it thought the government was their ENEMY. I can only assume people on welfare didn't take the pole.

    Have you considered what the government has done to YOU?

    * They raided the money you paid into social security... yes stole from their citizens.

    * They printed money - counterfeited - and weakened YOUR currency... causing inflation which you will see in the near future.

    * They allowed bankers to manipulate the laws that resulted in the greatest financial crisis the nation has seen

    * They over regulated and taxed businesses --- sending them into failure or overseas..... resulting in high employment.

    * Allowed Halliburton and other huge industries of the "war machine" to get us into conflicts that destroyed our economy and turned your country into a third world nation... begging for money to pay it's bills.

    How sad :(
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Iraq overall cost about 800 billion, Afghanistan costs 455 billion (so far). This is from 2001.

    So that's a total of about one and a quarter trillion dollars.

    Meanwhile in the past 3 years we've run deficits of about 5 trillion dollars.

    So solving the wars don't begin to solve our budget problems. Iraq is already pretty much done.
     
  11. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    You are absolutely correct.... and not enough people realize this and they will be caught with their britches down. I don't even know what I'm going to do about it and I have known it's coming for a couple years.

    What are you doing to prepare?

    I'm thinking that unless I have food or fuel to "trade" for necessities, I'll be among the hoards of masses struggling to survive.

    I certainly hope we can muddle along and it doesn't get that bad... but if the sh** hits the fan, I'm just not ready.

    People are buying gold like it's the answer but if the economy fails, so will banking and electronic accounting. Most people don't actually have that gold in their hands (and even if they did, they probably rather it be chocolate when they get hungry) ...most people don't even realize that savings and checking accounts may not be available or lose incredible value. ...but as we saw in New Orleans, the skin of society is really thin. If the SHTF people will quickly become desperate and anarchy can come in 3 or 4 days. If it happens everywhere there won't be any national guard or military to come to the rescue.



    We tend to dismiss things that have a low probability of happening but with consequences as serious as those we would face after economic failure... it's probably wise to think twice about the situation that may be thrust upon us.
     
  12. AshenLady

    AshenLady New Member Past Donor

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    I would raise tarriffs on foreign made items in order to level the playing field. Hopefully, that would bring about business returning to the USA, in addition to new businesses being started here in the USA.

    I would also make a flat tax for everyone.
     
  13. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    Did you know that conservative estimates put the cost of Ben Laden's attack on the US OVER 3 TRILLION dollars?

    I find it truly amazing that so few people can "connect the dots" since there are NO dots between his direct attack on our financial institutions and our debt.

    No doubt he will be viewed by historians as possibly the greatest tactician in history if his actions are a major contributor to bring down the USA economically.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business...of-bin-laden-3-trillion-over-15-years/238517/
     
  14. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    Of course we cannot tax our way to prosperity, but what we can do is bring federal revenue up to an adequate level through appropriate tax increases, tax cuts, tax reforms,and tax innovations. I consider small businesses and some corporations to be over-regulated, but large financial institutions and large consolidated corporations drastically deregulated. I believe that if we are going to print more money, that there should be a legitimate reason for doing so. One legitimate reason could be to implement a new tax on derivatives, which will tax all forms of financial derivatives transactions at a meniscule rate utilized by investment banks. Before you start condemning a new tax, you should first ask me what the tax will require in terms of comprehensive policy.

    Furthermore, I agree that we need take a more pragmatic approach to foriegn policy, which means a more diplomatic approach. As an aspiring diplomat, I beleive that resolving conflicts through our influence as a world power through words, not military action, is imperative to maintaining peace throughout the world, which will avoid costly wars. As the most influential "Power Five" nation, we tend to forget how our words can be. Therefore, I would increase the rate of troop withdrawal in Iraq and Afghanistan, and consider selling some of our military bases in Europe.
     
  15. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    I seem to remember that this idea was already tested and failed... they worded it a little different: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" Sounds familiar? Maybe Google it.

    The "ADEQUATE" level of government is "all they can get" Apparently there is no limit as to what "adequate" actually is.

    Printing is counterfeiting... if there is legitimate reason for counterfeiting I might get into the counterfeiting business myself.

    I don't like "old tax" ...noting you could say would make me like "NEW" tax.


    I wish and hope you can succeed... but we can't even resolve conflicts in this forum... and there are plenty "words" here ... I just don't see it working on an international level where philosophies and religious views and human rights are so diverse.
     
  16. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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  17. IndridCold

    IndridCold Banned

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    Maybe if Earth and her precious resources weren't currently being bogged down with far more resource-inefficient humans than it was ever meant to withstand, as well as the resulting violent conflicts that result over said scarce resources, discussions such as this would finally become unnecessary.
     
  18. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I moved to Idaho 17 years ago. If America would have kept the bubble course, would have been a slow death economically for me personally. But as things go more and more downhill, it turned out to be a blessing as the small town I moved to is practically all my kin. Plenty of grown and raised food, plenty of arms, plenty of ways for one to sustain an existence. And since use to living with less, would just need to make our own wine and whiskey and would have as much fun as always. Not too worried about an all out collapse on a personal note, more so of a national pride issue with me. I would rather America turned hardcore nationalists like Nazi Germany, minus the racism, and gave the world a go before we died, than this slow pride-less, cancerous death, just to be some mediocre global state.
     
  19. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    I would legalize pot, shrooms, and LSD and release all non violent offenders who were put in prison for their use or sale. This would free up billion in tax dollars and create a new tax revenue from the taxation of the drugs.

    Then I would give tax breaks to businesses who hire american citizens and end the J-1 Visa programs, which brings foreign students to work in american companies.

    I would raise the tax rate of american companies who outsource jobs to other countries and place a new terriff on the goods of those companies that are shipped back to america. This would make it cost more to outsource american jobs than it does to keep the work here.

    I would give incentives to foreign manufacturing companies who come to america, which would bring even more work.
     
  20. kowalskil

    kowalskil New Member

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    That makes sense to me. But who should define "our mission"? And how to make this happen?
    .
     
  21. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    When you talk about government, and if the discussion is deficit spending or debt ceilings, then you can skip all the stuff you mention above and go directly to the very simple equation; Income minus Expenses equals a Deficit or Surplus. For example, the debt ceiling circus is a 100% joke! It's not a 'ceiling' if it can be raised whenever we reach the limit! If it's a fricken joke...why do we play along with the idiots in Washington?

    Why do we need to talk about eliminating government redundancy...when if the idiots are not smart enough to understand redundancy then get rid of the idiots! These idiots will forever claim it was the other guy's doing/problem and funny how one after the other make these same claims. Nothing ever changes! 535 US representatives and 1 president are too stupid to reduce government spending...so they appoint a committee to do it for them...yet the committee has the same idiots that could not make the decision in the first place??!!

    When we buy into this idiot nonsense, it really makes the collective 'us' look stupid...
     
  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    We have a Constitution but today it seems like if we ask 10 people/scholars for interpretation, we will get 11 different answers. How much of this 'interpretation' is being driven by people's religious or political or special interest polarization? I would say; too much!

    Therefore, if we can't clearly define our mission, how can we possibly make corrections when necessary, and how can we on long term programs spread across many political terms, expect any effective continuity?
     
  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Of course there is not a single solution! But it's really stupid, IMO, to be talking about deficits and debt if we're not willing to stop the senseless military actions.

    If you glance through these web pages you will get a different picture of the cost of wars;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

    http://www.google.com/search?source...1US311&q=total+cost+of+US+wars+in+past+decade
     
  24. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    You do know I'm sure that if an American-made product sells for $10 each, and the identical import sells for $5 each, that if you place a $5 tariff on the import, that now all of this particular product will sell for $10?

    And you surely know that just because both products now have the same price, that this does not mandate that people will only buy American-made items! American cars and Japanese cars sell for about the same price, and in many cases the Japanese cars are more expensive, yet Americans buy lots of Japanese cars! Things like quality, and reliability, etc. are as important as price.

    And if you remove the import as a viable competitor by using a tariff, to force you to buy American made products, that without competition, you can expect the American-made product prices to continue to rise?

    And those imports that you stop buying because of your tariffs, how do you think those nations will feel about buying your American-made products when you stop buying their products?

    This is not as simple as you believe it to be...
     
  25. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    We have reached the Peter Principle so there is no one who can define the mission...
     
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