Revamp Government Top to Bottom...all other actions have failed!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by OldManOnFire, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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  2. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    You are very correct, OldManOnFire.

    Especially when you say, "It's time to wake up to this political calamity and force some real change that will help the USA survive the next few decades."

    Almost every aspect of government these days is affected by waste, fraud and abuse. And the people in Washington who represent us are inclined to look the other direction and do absolutely nothing about it!

    Even the federally supported program that helps feed children of needy families is not immune from corruption. Medicare is particularly prone to fraud and abuse by unscrupulous doctors and patients who are always available and woefully willing to "game" the system.

    If we would clean up these programs, we could save billions and billions of federal dollars without having to raise taxes on anyone!


     
  3. MuzzleBreak

    MuzzleBreak New Member

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    No matter what we do, we're gonna get what the Bankers bloody well give us. They are sure enough in their position that they can ignore talk, but anybody that actually gets in their way will be given the Andy Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, JFK, Larry Macdonald treatment.
     
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    When we can change personal greed and self-serving behavior to the ideology of managing the USA for the good of ALL citizens, then we might see some improvements. Until then, too many remain focused on themselves...
     
  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I am unaware of how bankers are causing any problems?
     
  6. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    I think our new flag should definitely retain the colors blue and white. Red, I'm less attached to, but I have to admit that it does add punch. I've thought at times that replacing the red with a particularly vibrant green would be cool, but then again, I know some people are really big into that red. There's also that connection to western European powers, which feels appropriate some days and not so much others.

    The white star on the field of blue, though -- that's critical.

    Should it still be a multitude of stars? I think so, but the argument could also be made that a single star would be a lot less, y'know, busy. But a single star implies unity whereas a broad field of stars implies individuality, and individuality sounds more American. But one for every state? The states are still government ... is there a way to use stars to imply all the millions of individuals, rather than the states? Could get very busy.

    Would it be wrong to take advantage of modern flag-producing technology? Get some gradients in there?
     
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to know what the total cost to the USA might be regarding the American flag? Especially the cost to governments?

    How would our lives actually change if we didn't have a flag? Would we become unAmerican...less American?

    I can't really think of any reason to have a flag other than identification during war to make sure we don't shoot our own soldiers?
     
  8. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    In reality, it cannot be changed or improved because it is managed by self-serving, greedy, politically and religiously polarized politicians, few if any with the qualifications to manage the complexity of the USA. Further, the citizenry who elect these people are also self-serving, greedy, politically and religiously polarized.

    Within this context I cannot imagine any scenario which will encourage improvement. I believe if we don't change our course we are in much bigger trouble than we are seeing today. If we ask ourselves 'what has government done for us in the past decade or so that has positively benefited a majority of Americans?' it's almost impossible to come up with an answer! No matter which topic we choose...social security, health care, infrastructure, wars, fiscal management, international standings, education, etc. all of them are worse today than yesterday!

    IMO the only way to begin providing ideas how to change government, is to figure out how to get PEOPLE in all aspects of life and politics to do a much better job. No matter how great a government system we can design, if the PEOPLE force their person into it, we will keep the status quo. But we are strapped with human behavior, from top to bottom, and without having people make better decisions, I don't know where to start to answer your question because everything I would like to do requires better decisions-making skills...
     
  10. hoytmonger

    hoytmonger New Member

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    Nothing. >>>>>>>
     
  11. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    So, it is a hopeless situation in your view because change in government is dependent on the people, who are too self interested to become engaged and even if they do, their elected representatives are too self-interested to do the right thing. You really need to take a look at how this sort of situation comes about, an entire people being preyed upon by a representative democracy that exactly mirrors their own obsessive self interest.

    I believe it all started with the idea that individuals have rights that trump any power of the collective, i.e.society, to force them to operate in the best interest of society rather than in their own exclusive interest. There are many rights claimed for humans that seek to abrogate the power of the collective but most of these seek to put people on more equal ground. There is only one that seeks the power of the collective to make people less equal, individual property rights.

    Individual property rights give the individual a right to disregard society in the pursuit of their own desires, i.e. a right to act selfishly. Some call this freedom, others liberty. In other words, it is the individual's right to property that has brought about this untenable situation of representative government where every actor at every level is seeking only their own best interest regardless of everything else. In fact, it is the only possible result from the selfish freedom that individual property right engenders.

    The only way out is to get people to realize that acting in societies best interest is their best interest. The way to do that is to make individual actions that work against social benefit less attractive by tying individual achievement to social advance rather than personal gain. The way to do that is to reduce the individual's right to act selfishly by minimizing the rewards of private property ownership while maximizing the rewards of unselfish contributions to social advance. To convince people that liberty and freedom are not individual but social.

    We have reached a sort of limit of governance for a large and complex society vis a vis notions of personal freedom, individual liberty and property rights that were plausible for a small agrarian nation on the edge of a vast wilderness a few centuries ago.

    The entire equation must be fundamentally rethought if we are to survive.
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Nicely stated U42...but no matter private property ownership, the root of all our issues lies with People. As a kid I loved watching the Three Musketeers and always paid attention to their motto; All for one and one for all. Today the motto might be; All for ONE and ONE for ONE. How can we ever change this self-serving behavior? How can we have so many self-proclaimed gung-ho Americans be so detached from a nation who claims to be 'united states' and 'one nation indivisible'? Why are we no longer willing to sacrifice when we make mistakes or when we wish to create a better future? Why do we allow senseless wars that cost trillion$ and in parallel ask for less tax burden?

    Nothing makes sense to me today and I cannot imagine how it will change for the better...
     
  13. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    Where do you find hope? Just wait for the failing system to totally crash and put your hope in rebuilding.... or hold on to a dream that it only takes a few people to build a nation like this and only a few could possibly save it.


    Yes... that's the answer but do you think it can actually be done? The whole history of religion is to try to get people to arrange their priorities in the right order... and they offer rewards of grandure in the after life... still they haven't succeeded.

    Prepare for doom. I don't think it can be stopped from happening.
     
  14. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    Religion is a big part of the problem, lulling people into submission when they should be concerned with the here and now. There is no chance of success through religion, it is the wrong approach.

    There is hope and the movement is building. What is happening is that people are organizing themselves outside of religion, government, and other traditional centers of power to pursue what they see as right in the manner they see as most fit.

    You can see this in the huge and growing Non-Governmental Organization movement. Thirty years ago these organizations were ignored as nothing more than a minor nuisance, now they sit at the table and exert a major influence on governments and other centers of power. Government, business, and even religion can no longer ignore the power of NGOs to express and mobilize public opinion to force those in power to take their concerns seriously.
     

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