Why feel social guilt to support troops?

We are fed this false dichotomy BS, in the media, at all levels, in fact.

The mantra is 'support the troops'. And, of course, if you do not conform to that, and shout it as loud as possible, as often as possible, then you can handily be rounded on, for not doing so.

Ah, the power of social pressure and psychology.

Well, I am not buying it.

Look, I obviously do not want troops to come home in body bags. I would sooner they got home, and lived their lives.

But that does not mean to say that I am obligated to support what they are doing, in various countries, at given points. Why should I feel the need to take to the streets and greet their return, if in fact I fundamentally oppose the job they were doing? I would do that in no other situation, for no other professional.

There is a huge difference between wishing them no harm, and actually supporting their work. I fall into the former, on most occasions.

Human life is under valued, and the pain of losing a loved one great, which is my main reason for wanting troops home alive. But I am not nationalistic about it, so I equally value the lives of those native to the countries in which they have been killed. Some are unwilling to do this. Shame on them.

There are lots of instances in various societies, in which the people should very much NOT have supported what their military were doing. But they did, and terrible things were to happen, that we are meant to remember today, but do not.

Jack

 

they are not responsible for republican leadership, those are the actual criminals.

rich old men start wars for young poor men to fight..

 

I don't see the dems ending any wars.

In fact they have started most of the wars in the last 100 years.

Not everyone in the military are poor either in fact most are not.

 

But that is their choice.

They did have that choice, they were not drafted or forced, they chose that life, and if they didn't know that they were likely to be used in questionable actions, then perhaps it is due to the fact that many are too young and naive to think about it, as an older person would.

And the authorities know this, which is why you can train to kill, and be prepared to die at about 18, yet not buy a beer in a bar. Absurd that, huh?

Still, none of that obligates me or anyone, esp their bosses, to support their actions.

Besides, the excuse of merely following orders, with no 'say', that was proven insufficient as a defence, during the NWT's.

And it was rejected as an excuse, for very good reason.

I am sick of the killing, be that of soldiers, or be that of those soldiers kill.

These are all people, with families and hopes.

No one has the right to take the life of another, it is murder.

In all but the most extreme cases, it must be avoided, yet this is not so, it is gratuitous, and, ironically, the same Gov's will wag their finger at us Prols, if we dare cause social unrest, at home.

If the army relied on being led directly, front line style, by the very politicians who felt strongly enough to order it, then I speedily feel we would see no more dead.

 

Spot on.

Thing is, those young men, and those that love them, they need to realise that they are being suckered, and paid poorly to often risk their lives, and leave their loved one's suffering, and all for some vanity action, ordered by men who would never have the balls to do it themselves.

 

Then don't support us, whatever. Contrary to your misguided belief though, it is just a job for us. The only difference is it's a lot harder than whatever job you are doing. And decisions aren't made by us. Everyone pays their bills in one way or another though!

 

Not all are 18 in fact a large percentage are older.

Officers for example are college graduates and therefore the norm is several years older than 18 at a minimum and they do their share of fighting.

Murder is not merely taking the life of another. Murder is defined by law and the law provides for the government to order the deaths of people through war or even capitol punishment. Murder is not defined by our feelings about human life.

If you do not wish to support them fine and so be it. In all honesty I do not see any of this pressure you seem to imply to get people to " support " the troops.

I do however agree with you that it is absurd to say it is illegal for young troops to be trusted with going to war but not to drink a beer.

 

You shouldn't support what you disagree with, despite peer pressure.

 

Then I am more at ease in a role in which I can have my own thoughts, and think for myself.

I am funny that way.

 

Absolutely.

But peer pressure is a powerful weapon.

 

Peer pressure is a nothing more than a powerful excuse for doing what one knows is wrong.

 

It is more than that.

It is a psychological state of mind, a powerful one, as many experiments have shown.

It is the MINORITY who tend to be immune to it.

 

It's better to be viewed as a scumbag by your peers than it is to partake in herd mentality. The kicker is whether or not one is simply being difficult, or simply refuses to violate a principal that is held after a lot of consideration.

 

Partisan hack alert!!!!!

 

That one is a propaganda machine!

 

It would kinda help if her propaganda made at least the little bit of sense.

 

At times I've wondered if LM was actually a wolf in sheeps clothing, because sometimes the views are just too easy to refute.

 

Considering how many people in this country ran around for the better part of a decade insulting our troops and displaying signs full of pacifist clichés like "no blood for oil," I don't think anyone in America feels any kind of social guilt about not supporting our troops. In fact, it really only became popular not to hate them once President Obama became the one commanding the war efforts. Hence all the peculiar silence about Libya and the strange surge of patriotism over the killing of Osama Bin Laden.

Look back through the Bush years and see how many people felt guilty about not supporting the troops.

 

I support my troops at home. Outta bounds I shoot at them.

 

I joined because it was the only way I would ever get through college without massive debt. The rates in my state have literally tripled over the summer, I can no longer afford to pursue my Astrophysics degree in the way I had planned.

It's somehow my fault though, isn't it.

Would have been easier if we had been able to find people to fund my patent, but ingenuity is no longer rewarded.

 

I am not religious so I dont feel guilt or shame. I have no guilt felling towards the military, only respect for those who serve.

But some if not all religious people will feel guilt if they did not serve in the Military and are getting a free ride of freedom. But in some cases preachers who hate the military will preach hate not guilt. And the simple will follow.

In fact over 80% of the people who attempt to get in the military do not qualify because of, lack of intelligence, too many law violations, and/or do not meet medical standards.

I do dispise the politicians who kep the military in Afganistan. there is no reason for the USA and other countries to be there.

Afganistan is like an alcoholic, you can't change it unless it wants to be changed. It will burn it's bridges with those closest, and it will go into remission once it gets a few bucks to get another bottle.

After all, Afganistan is what brought down the USSR. No navy, no airforce, just a bunch of village people with ancient weapons. It brought down the second largest military power in the world. Now Afganistan is seeking to bring down the largest military in the world.

 

Believe it or not, I am actually on your side.

It is not about 'fault'.

It is about choice.

I am sorry no one was prepared to fund your ingenuity, I think that if your idea was strong enough, there are still those out there prepared to back it, it is just a matter of finding them - they do exist.

I also think it is tragic that you felt doing this was the only way to pay your way through college. But it makes my point very well.

First of all your system creates a situation in which young people find it hard to fund an education.

Then the same system offers up the armed forces as means to 'solve' that problem.

Then the system creates immoral actions to send you into.

There is a word for that, and it is called 'exploitation'.

There is no question that the armed forces exploit the least well off, one of the reasons they go on mass recruitment drives in the poorest areas, at times.

It is rather disgustingly cynical, to be honest.

It would be quite possible to create an environment in which genius, creativity, and your ingenuity would be rewarded. Right now, we have a system that would sooner reward criminal bankers, the same bankers that take nations to the economic brink.

It would be quite possible to build a society in which the young did not feel a need to join the armed forces, as a means of paying for an education.

However, such things do not suit the agenda of the same people that send you to foreign lands, to kill, and risk being killed.

It does not suit them to reward free thinking people, and creative people. They want those just clever enough to do what they are told, but not quite enough to ask the wrong sort of questions.

 

But respect must be earned, and while I have nothing against a given individual, if I cannot respect the operation, and consider it immoral, how can I respect the person carrying out the operation?

 

God bless you Jack. same here