I would like to discuss and see if anyone here is different than the norm when it comes to social political views and religious beliefs. It's assumed by the media and people that Christians will be socially conservative and that non-religious/more alternative religions will be more liberal on social issues. I would like to see if anyone has the same sentiment as not fitting into either of those, either way. I might not be considered "Christian" by most people because I'm not protestant, but I am Catholic. Many priests have expressed social conservative political views, and it seems most Catholics are social conservative. (Off topic, but many American Catholics are liberal overall) I have a friend who is Greek Orthodox (another non-"Christian", very similar to Catholicism) and he expresses strong social conservative views. I am a libertarian though, and even though I oppose abortion I still consider myself a social liberal. I believe God gave us freewill and we as individuals have the choice to make moral decisions: I don't believe it is the government's job to enforce what is "morally right": What is morally right is decided between you and your personal relationship with God, or if you are not religious whatever makes you happy. One of my good friends is outright atheist, yet ironically enough he is way more socially conservative than I am. He opposes the legalization of drugs, even marijuana, the legalization of prostitution, and abortion (although I agree with him on that one, is still a socially conservative position). He believes that the government should overall create moral, productive people. Anybody else in similar positions as me or my friend?
What???? From when Catholicism and orthodox religion aren't Christian religion? :-S Starting from the point that you're Christian. Later, if you're catholic you should obey what says the Pope, so you should be as conservative as the Pope demands. For example don't practice sex before marriage, abstinence practices, no use of preservative. Opposition to the homosexual marriage and homosexual relations. And, obviously you must consider the Pope as infallible, if you don't do all that you aren't catholic In Spain is said that 90% of people are catholic. xD jajaja. The reality is that maybe in SPain there are only a 10% of catholic people. Later, whatever your religious position you can be more socially conservative or not. It depends...
A lot of times this is "generally" right but I try to not believe it 100% of the time. I used to be a Christian and I never considered Catholics to not be one. But that's just me. There are some really conservative Protestants out there who say Catholics are not Christians. You're right that most Catholics are social conservatives, and they are also economic liberals, which is why Catholics tend to vote Democrat (not always but usually). I don't know how you consider yourself a social conservative and a social liberal. Social liberals are more like me, in favor of gay marriage, in favor of the right to an abortion up to a certain time (which I am not sure about and still mulling over), laxing the drug laws, and low censorship of material deemed offensive, such as porn or art that depicts religious figures in unflattering positions. However, you are a libertarian in your own words. So this makes it extremely difficult to be a social conservative. In fact it borders on downright contradictory. Libertarians want government out of almost everything, except for defense and police and the courts. Libertarians also believe that individuals DON'T have the right to be helped by someone else. They think it's GOOD if you do it, but there is no overall moral obligation to say pay higher taxes for social programs. People are responsible for their own behavior and situation. Perhaps you mean something else when you say you are libertarian? This is a good example because it shows atheism does not necessarily mean liberalism in every aspect.
Dookieman, I feel your pain... But, let's correct something very essential. The United States is a nation of heretics, except for y'all Catholics. It's as simple as that. Also, Catholicsm since the 1950's has become very progressive, not speaking of the Vatican but about the priests and bishops (Cardinals are an entire different matter). I'm really a bit confused about your post though, Catholics and the older forms of Christianity: Orthodox folks (Greeks, Russian, Armenians, Syrians, Coptics, etc.) are the foundation of Christendom. The rest is utter madness.
Kilgram, most priests in Europe -- the people that actually in the field -- don't like the line of the Vatican. Only the Cardinals some-what "obey" the Vatican line. Most Bishops and regular priests, at least in Belgium, are very progressive.
Well, a lot of priest in Belgium are "progressive". Our former Cardinal (Cardinal Danneels) was progressive too, he retired and we now have the most rotten Cardinal of Brussels-Mechelen (= the only Cardinal in Belgium) possible. Also, in the light of the wave of scandals regarding peadophilia, countless of priest (and bishops) are fighting tooth-and-nail against the Vatican. It's like a religious revolution or something. The progressive are pushing an agenda for the greater good, e.g. the acceptance of homosexual marriaga, the acceptance of female priests, etc.
I understand you are upset, but it's not my fault you aren't part of Christus' Kingdom on Earth. So I guess you take out your anger on someone else, e.g. your parents.
Sorry kid, I don't need your imaginary cloud kingdom to get me thru life. But hey, if these delusions sooth your soul, run with it.
I have a lot to reply to on here, but here is something I need to say to everyone: I am completely aware that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are Christian religions. However, in modern times, those religions are usually considered something separate. If you go up to someone and casually ask what religion they are, and they say "I'm Christian," they probably mean that they are Baptist, Lutheran, or one of the many types of Protestantism. Their way of doing things is completely different than a Catholic's, and a Catholic would probably answer with "I'm Catholic." And the term's to describe Americans such as "Christian Conservatives" usually imply the Protestants, and the southern area known as the "Bible Belt" is DEFINITELY regarding to Protestantism. Catholicism does not have a large presence in those areas. I'm not the perfect Catholic, but I try to live my own life the way I believe God wants me to do so. If one wants to abstain from sex until marriage, they should be allowed to do that. I'm socially liberal though in the sense that I don't think people should be restricted from sex, it's their own life and they can live it as they please. When it comes to gay marriage, I don't think any Church should practice it. The individual churches can decide for themselves that marriage is only between a man and a woman: gays should be allowed to get married otherwise. If I had it my way, marriage wouldn't even be a government institution. I believe it should just be between any two people, any church, whatever, and they can call it whatever they want and nobody should care. I did not say that I'm a social conservative: I said I am Catholic, which are usually socially conservative, but I am different in the fact that I am socially liberal. However, I did point out that I have one socially conservative position, which is abortion, yet I still consider myself overall socially liberal. I agree with you on everything else you listed. I am definitely in favor of gay marriage, legalizing drugs, and low censorship. Just because I personally would never indulge in drugs or prostitution, I still think they should be legalized. People have the right to their own body. I have stated above that I am not social conservative. Also, I don't believe that ANYONE has the inalienable RIGHT to be helped. This sense of entitlement to the poor is probably why many Catholics are economically liberal. They think it is the government's duty to develop social programs to help the poor. However, Catholic teachings teach that one should be charitable and give to the poor, it says nothing about the government stealing from the people and deciding who else to give it to. I think if welfare programs started being abolished, more people would donate to charities which would be much more efficient at helping the poor. Hopefully you understand how I am still libertarian?
OK I'm sorry for misunderstanding you. I think you are more libertarian now, with your opinions on marijuana and gay marriage and what not and also with opinions about welfare. And it's perfectly consistent to be against abortion if you believe it to be murder, since even libertarians say we need police and military and we cannot kill others. What is your opinion on the current wars? Are you with Ron Paul who says get out everywhere?
It's okay man, I'll try to be more clear when posing an argument like this in the future. Yes, I believe it to be murder, it has nothing to do with a women's right to privacy for me. Honestly, for anything else, a woman has a right to whatever privacy she wants. If she wants to have sex for money, more power to her. When it comes to wars, well, frankly I'm not entirely educated on that subject when compared to other issues, but I definitely agree that our presence in other nations will make them hate us. I'm not 100 percent sure when it comes to say, pulling out of Iraq immediately, but we need to drastically cut our military spending and pull out in all the places where it's completely unnecessary. We should only go to war if we are attacked and then have a clear plan as to what to do, and then get out. None of this in between diplomacy crap, you either go to war or you don't.
Do you subscribe to "just war theory?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_War#Criteria_of_Just_War_theory. It originated within Catholicism and I learned about it when I took ethics. You say we should go to war only if we are attacked, and that sounds like it would be in line with the just war doctrine, so I'm just curious what your thoughts on it are.
