Will God welcome Gays into the Kingdom of Heaven

Are you saying that Hell is excluded from the Catholic faith ?

 

I believe what he was trying to say was that the judgement on who goes to heaven or hell is ultimately up to God and God alone.

 

Protestant churches are springing up. And there are as many beliefs as there are Protestants, something even Martin Luther decried.

I know. Protestants have no idea what to do with this verse:

John 20:23
If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

It's like a game of Tetris to them, and this is a misshaped block that doesn't seem to fit anywhere in their theology.

You haven't seen any of my thoughts on Calvinism. I'm well aware of Calvin's teachings and the popular TULIP system that today's Calvinists use to explain them.

The OP is a piece of (*)(*)(*)(*), and I sent Robodoon a message reproving him for starting provocative threads and then abandoning them. Sort of like a hit and run. I feel sorry for Robodoon and those like him because he is utterly estranged from the mind of God and for the love God has for sinners. This more than anything is a harbinger of perdition. Homosexuality can be forgiven. Rejecting the grace of God on an ongoing basis cannot.

 

They mostly spring up in the USA. That it's mostly protestant churches may have to do with a lack of authoritarian structures in Protestantism. A lack that I hold dear.

Or so you think maybe rightly, maybe not. There is no reason to make of that verse what the Catholic Church made of it. Having said that I must also mention that personally I certainly see some upsides of the Catholic way of confession rites. As I said: I have no intention to start an interconfessional flamewar. Quite the contrary: I strongly support the ecumenical movement.

That system, however critical I may see it myself, doesn't tell you who exactly is going to hell and who isn't. In Calvinist doctrine that remains within God's domain.

Reading Robodoon's post I would not necessarily classify them as a sign that he's estranged from God but mainly as a sign of general confusion estranged from any form of logical reasoning.

Your views on grace bear astonishing resemblance to the Protestant (even Calvinist) concept of Sola Gratia.

I and many other members of my church would not only say that homosexuality else can be forgiven but would even go as far that homosexuality isn't a sin. What is indeed a sin is living one's sexuality in selfish ways that are harmful to oneself and others, sadly that is something that is common in both homo- and heterosexuality.

 

Protestants continue to stray further into error lacking not only the fullness of truth, but the anchor that is the ancient and universal church. It used to be that all Protestants understood the evils of contraception, but after the Anglican Lambeth Conference, nearly every denomination abandoned opposition to the practice. The problem with Protestants isn't what they believe today, but rather that you have no idea what they'll believe 50 years from now.

Confession is the best way to break up a cycle of sin because it introduces the element of accountability. When somebody commits a mortal sin, they cannot simply confess it silently to God because their offense is against God and the Church. Communion is subsequently broken with both God and the Church. The priest, acting in the stead of Christ and Christ's holy Church restores both relationships.

Calvinists are guilty of the same offense as many other protestants, using an elaborate system of tidy biblical formulas to predict with unshakeable certainty the criteria by which God will judge the souls of men. It's a subtle way to control God and put him in a box and shows a patent disrespect for the sovereign, taylor made way that God will judge each and every human soul. God is not bound by formulas created by men and their dim understanding of celestial matters.

I would have more respect for Robodoon, even in error, if he had the balls to defend his provocative OP.

Now you take that back!

I disagree. Yes every sin is equal in its capacity to separate us eternally from God unless confessed and forgiven, but that doesn't mean every sin is equal. Homosexuality is called an abomination which, in the hierarchy of sins is more grave than a mortal sin but just short of blasphemy. The Church calls homosexuality "intrinsically disordered". Though fornication is wrong it is neither an abomination nor a twisting of the natural order. It's a natural act committed in an improper context. The two are not equal.

 

Let's overlook your rather unfriendly statements about Protestants.

What should I take back? Do you not agree that we can only be saved by the grace of God?

And - ehem - don't you think it's funny that you complain about protestants putting God in a box only to bring up the Catholics' intricate categories of sins in the very next paragraph?

Let's just agree that God is higher than our reason that longs for boxes and categories and bury the hatchet, shall we?

 

Why? How is the truth friendly or unfriendly? Do YOU know what Protestants will believe in 50 years? They invented dispensationalism, the pretrib rapture myth, universal salvation, British Israelism, Manifest Destiny and much much more. Who knows what they'll invent next. The sky's the limit.

I and the entire Catholic Church for 2000 years agree with that. The conflict you're seeing is predicated on your false notion of what Catholics believe.

How does a hierarchy of sins put God in a box? Jesus told Pilate that the one who delivered Jesus to him had the greater sin. Some sins are more grave than others.

Yes, I'm all for dropping the prescreening service altogether. Salvation can be summed up in two words. God decides.

 

The truth isn't, the way one puts it is.

And the Catholic Church gave birth to (in my opinion) wonderful movements such as Liberation theology and to (in my opinion) rubbish congregations such as the „Legion of Christ“. Do you have any idea how diverse your church is?
Undoubtedly though the Catholic Church as a self perpetual undemocratic organizational structure is a very sloooooow mover and I wouldn't be surprised if it would take another 100 years to get rid of the dogma of Papal infallibility that they came up with in 1870.
On the other hand I know a lot of really nice Catholics who are trying hard to make their Church move a little faster. I wish them every success.

Actually it was you who saw a conflict with what Protestants believe.

And the Catholic Church thinks it knows which are graver and which are less grave.

And here we are in full agreement even though you're Catholic and I'm Protestant. Isn't that nice?

 

With or without lube?

 

Anyoen who believes in God and answered yes OR no is guilty of idolatry. The decision of who to judge good or evil is God's. Not yours. You are not God. Do you think God will look kindly on the way you sneak your butt onto his throne?