A ********** controlled country

Tax reform indeed. Yes we need tax reform. A tax code over 70,000 pages long cannot possibly be right.
b.o.'s own appointed fiscal commission told him that nearly a year ago.
http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sit...files/documents/TheMomentofTruth12_1_2010.pdf
He didn't like their reasonable and possibly successful solutions. Their report ran counter to his ideological demagoguery, so he trash canned their report.

But in that report was the recommendation to throw out the existing tax code and go to a no deductions tax system with LOWER rates for all levels.

"But in spite of low and middle income tax relief gestures, the beneficiaries of these gratuitous loopholes continue to live one step short of foreclosure and two steps short of bankruptcy. In recent history, too many of these same people have come up one or two steps short of economic survival."

There have always been people at the lower end of every society, there always will be. There will always be actual poor that cannot fend for themselves. And in the USA it seems there will always be the "designated poor."
People are not born equal and no law will make people equal. Laws guaranteeing that everyone has equal opportunity is the best that can be done. And we have long since done THAT. When LBJ started the "Great Society" war on poverty back in the 60's we had 14% of the nation living below the government designated poverty line. 50 years and trillions of dollars later, we have 14.3% of the nation below the poverty line. A good economy and that % goes down a point or 2, a bad economy and it goes up a point or 2. Basically it is a given. That lesson should be obvious when the greatest, richest, nation man has ever known spends trillions and 50 plus years and changes nothing. Its time to deal with it as it is, rather than continuing the futility of trying to change the unchangeable. Dealing with poverty as a given fact would probably be better for the poor.

 

So there are different classes, so what is the big deal? In this country people can move from one class to another. And DO constantly. A rich person could become poor, a poor person could become rich. Their own capabilities are the only thing that helps them or stops them. That is what is meant by a classless society, You might make a note of that. Classes exist in the USA, but there are no walls around any class.

The rich that libs love to rail against, are today's rich. They are DIFFERENT people from yesterday's rich. Only a small minority of today's rich are old money. Over 90% of today's rich made their money themselves, in their own working lifetimes. Almost all of today's rich were from the middle class, AND LOWER, in their lifetimes.
The recently departed Steve Jobs is a great example. He quit school to start a company in his garage. And Apple became somewhat successful. AND Apple fell on hard times and faced bankruptcy and Steve Jobs was FIRED. So he was not rich, then he was rich, then he wasn't rich and then he became rich again. He died a billionaire. Is he indicative of the problem? Or is the problem just the whining of envious worthless losers?

 

If you are referring to the OWS movement, you are sadly mistaken. The protesters and their demands are the best thing that could happen to the Republican Party.

The nation, from the left of center to the extreme right is pushing back against entitlements. And these morons are demanding a "living wage regardless of income."

What support is there for that?

 

MONTOYA SAID: "Lets say if hypothetically the **********s won the presidency and both houses of congress . . ."

This scenario may not be as hypothetical as you might think. A bill recently filed in Florida by State Rep. Brad Drake, R-Eucheeanna, would eliminate Florida's standard method of execution (lethal injection) and allow for executions, "only by electrocution or firing squad".

This Tea party prototype is from Eucheeanna, just south of De Funiak Springs. The Florida panhandle (pronounced, "South Alabama") is of course, known for it's abundant supply of Tea party fruits and nuts; but thanks to Republican Brad Drake, Eucheeanna is now famous for it's nuts!

SOURCE: HUFFINGTON POST. URL = http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/12/brad-drake-florida-death-penalty_n_1007540.html

 

Yes, the example of Steve is an excellent example of some of today's problems. Steve Jobs and his artificially high prices for mediocre equipment with a modicum of original thought, as opposed to the more open architecture of MS with many many many many more companies getting rich off of the MS products than the few that make money off of Steve. The exorbitant rates for Apple products compared to the far more reasonable products of MS. Yes, people like JOBS who seek more and more profit with little to no increase in production, corporate size or cooperation are a major problem with the USA and one reason I will never purchase another piece of Apple drivel.

 

" I will never purchase another piece of Apple drivel.

Thus you invalidate your entire complaint. If you do not like Apple products, you don't buy them. Someone else does and does. Some don't like Chevy, some don't like Ford. Some like chocolate, some like vanilla. That is the free market at work. Where is the Betamax, the 8 track? The typewriter? Not bad products, just casualties of normal free market changes.

I have never purchased an Apple product, but if anyone led the way, it was Apple not Microsoft. You might review the histories of the 2 companies.

 

I already said that Steve had some minor skills at innovation, it was what happened afterwards that was the problem, lol. And I did break down and purchase one apple computer one time, just to see what the fuss was about, and I still have it, in the shed packed up, for I had no love for it.

 

Still you prove the free market works. I used an Apple computer for about 5 weeks. Had 0 problems with it, liked it. Didn't see that it was superior ENOUGH to buy one over a Windows OS box. If priced the same, I would be just as likely to buy either product. The I pods, & I phones, & I pads etc. I'm old, have the thumbs that 11 years of football produces so I have little interest in those. I'm so old, I think a phone is for making phone calls. I have a Nokia so old I just ordered a new battery for it as the old batt has lost the ability to hold a charge. Youngsters would get a NEW PHONE, old farts reason, the phone's OK, get a new battery. I needed to set an alarm the other day. Used my wind up clock, couldn't remember how to set an alarm on my cell phone and the instructions have yellowed, crumbled and blown away! I'm talking OLD!

 

Just because the "free market" seems to work in a few anecdotal circumtances does not mean it actually accomplishes anything except to temporarily make someone more money than someone else.
Is that is? Is that the purpose of the marketplace? Or is it something else?

 

If we had a tea party controlled world we wouldnt have such a huge govt.

The parasites wouldnt be able to get a govt check every month.

Business would be free to operate.

Taxes would be lower.

NO SOCIALISM!!!!!!

 

The parasitic businessmen who depend on public charity to support their underpaid workers would certainly be unable to get a government check. Companies would no longer be able to depend on the government to suppress labor unions and would have to take money from overpaid management to pay workers decent wages. The economy would grow as workers had more money to spend because they formed a union and gained not just a bigger share of the profits but a big stake in them which would spur them to work more productively.

The government would return to its Constitutional remit to promote the general welfare of all the people directly, not indirectly by promoting the interests of those with the money.

 

Kindly identify any of these parasitic businessmen with their underpaid workers?
You're just vomiting out your liberal brainwashing. You have been swindled by the class warfare tactics of the failed useless incompetent divisive president.

 

How about WalMart, which includes a list of food banks and social service agencies along with maps and phone numbers in its employee orientations since it does not pay them enough to live on. Because Wal Mart does not have to pay as much in benefits to part time employees most are hired part time. Wal Mart is the biggest private employer in the US and its employees are the biggest users of government paid social services and private charity of any employer in the US.

I am totally against this sort of public subsidy of private business profits. If a business cannot, or will not pay its employees a wage they can live on it should not be in business. These businesses are parasites, sucking up the good will of decent people compelled by their faith and beliefs to help the less fortunate into their corporate coffers.

You are the one with nothing to back up your position but vitriolic personal attacks and idiotic statements irrelevant to the issue at hand. If you want to have a reasoned debate about political positions we can continue but if you carry on with your imbecilic personal attacks and insults it will take a lot of the substance out of the discussion.

 

Funny, when my ex-wife got a job at Wal-Mart, I never saw any such material. And I was married to her at the time. As for hiring part time, when you consider the added cost of government regulations included in hiring full-time. It makes economic sense to hire part-time. Contrary to Liberal dogma, businesses don't exist to give people jobs, they exist to make money. When they make money,they hire people.

 

You make 2 interesting statements.

Kindly prove the first that Walmart employee ARE " the biggest users of government paid social services and private charity of any employer in the US."

What is the official source, NOT liberal source of this info?

And the second.

"You are the one with nothing to back up your position but vitriolic personal attacks and idiotic statements irrelevant to the issue at hand."

"if you carry on with your imbecilic personal attacks and insults"

That is your description of me. That is alright for you to do, but NOT alright for me to do?
More loony liberal lalaland idiocy. I would love to treat liberals as though they were not lunatics. And I will treat libs with respect when they stop talking like lunatics and telling whopping lies and rewriting history every time history becomes inconvenient for liberals which is almost constantly.

 

When you stop I will. If you want to refute what someone says just calling them a liberal or a liar over and over accomplishes nothing but make you look like you have no brains and are unable to think coherently enough to make any sort of reasoned reply. People are liable to miss your point with all that distraction.

You seem to be an intelligent person, you could make your points better through intelligent argument rather than angry vitriol. This is a political forum, a meeting place to explore political opinions, not a bar room for insults and brawling so please, lets stop.

You need to talk to what people say specifically and leave out the insults. If you believe what someone says is wrong then you need a logical and reasonable argument against it. If you think they are misrepresenting something, like history, you need to say where exactly they are wrong or more generally present your own view and be prepared to defend it with logical and reasonable arguments.

 

Like I couldn't care less what a loony liberal says about me? Take your best shot, I'll accept it as more of the boring loony liberal nonsense.


Reasonable logical arguments? OK where is the official proof that Walmart employees are sucking up more govt bennies than any other group. No links to liberal loony sites are to be considered.

 

I'm surprised you could GET a new battery! I had to replace my phone a while back because I COULDN'T get a battery for the old one. (And even if I could...a battery often costs almost as much as a new phone.)

 

Radio Shack and a dozen others, online only. I priced a new batt about 2 years ago. It was about $40. Now the price is down to $15.95. Every site, [Google "cell phone batteries"] has thousands of part numbers available. I got the same original battery brand, not an off brand. My phone was used for work for years and I've been retired for 11 years now. If they had mine, they certainly should have one for a phone newer than 15 or more years old.

 

The free market is great, but, only when it has legitimate overview by responsible government. An unbridled free market, like unbridled capitalism leads to monopolies, and other horrid things, such as executives making 20 million dollars a year for doing nothing, or for even running a company into the ground. It also leads to Businesses that are run by people with NO interest in the corporation, whose ONLY interest is money money and more money at ANY cost to the company or people working for the company. Capitalism is great, but there needs to be an oversight that will FORCE, when necessary for responsibilities to work both UP and DOWN, business owes its workers just as much or more than the workers owe business.

 

Businesses are free to operate now, in fact they are making record high profits and NOT reinvesting a penny. They are paying the highest dividends ever and not doing a thing to improve their companies, or to reinvest in the nation. They are run by stockholders who care about nothing but money. If in control of the world, the first thing i would do is eliminate VOTING stock.

 

Businesses have a responsibility to make profits. They do NOT have a responsibility to give you anything you haven't earned. You say they are making record profits, but you cannot prove that.

You say that they are not reinvesting a penny. That is a completely stupid thing to say. They ARE reinvesting every cent. They are not burying cash in their landscaping. They have no legal or moral imperative to invest in this nation or any other nation. They never have had. That you want businesses to be forced to give you what you haven't earned is just communism. YOU, not any and all businesses are solely responsible for whatever you have or don't have. If you have a lot, that's your fault, not any business. If you have little, that's your fault, not any business.

Businesses DO have a responsibility to their stockholders. If you are not a stockholder its none of your business. And WHO are those stockholders conspiring with businesses? Your Grandmother and Grandfather, or someone's Grandparents. Its your neighbor down the street. Its your grocery store mgr. Its your 5th grade teacher. Its your fathers labor union. It your county employees retirement fund. And this will really pizz you off, its me, I'm a stockholder. Of many stocks.

The US unemployment rate is 9.1%. Add in underemployed and we are at 16 to 18%. So who are those 82% that ARE employed working for? Themselves or BUSINESSES? The most Federal revenue our government collected was in 2007. It was $2,528 trillion. This year [FY] 2011 the govt took in $2,285 trillion. Only $283 billion less than the best year ever. Many many businesses are NOT doing that well. In 2007 we had 16,000,000 millionaires in the USA. Today we have 10,000,000. A 37.5% drop in wealthy people. The government and the unemployed are doing BETTER than that. Yes I know they still have much and there still are many millionaires. Many places to direct your drooling jealousy.

The USA today, Days of WHINES and Losers.

 

I think the Tea Party is too diverse to be stereotyped. There are even what some people might call TeaPartiers on OWS.

I do think that after the TP candidates made clear their intention to renege on the promise of social security to millions of people who have already paid into it, the popularity of the TP has dropped considerably. I think the vast majority of TP types are old people on Social Security.

 

We already have a bunch of **********s running the country. Barney Frank is the leader. It's awful isn't it.

What we need are people with Tea party values who want a return to smaller, efficient, HONEST government which obeys the law.