Occupy Movement Still not Changing Anything

The OP is simply another piece of convenient right-wing propaganda.

Of course the Occupy movement is changing societies - in the US and elsewhere.

It is focussing national debates on fundamental inequalities in the distributions of wealth and power. And on the consequences of allowing wealth and power in the hands of small, avaricious, corrupt and aggressive elites.

The narrative the Occupy movements are carrying is nothing new. And it is a no-brainer.

But they are providing a bull-horn for the grievances Americans in particular have merely muttered about before now.

They have received little support from the media. The only in-depth and balanced reporting I have seen of the protests has been on Russia Today.

What does that tell you about the counter-movement?

 

---Amen!---

 

You didn't answer my question, so I believe the answer is no, you haven't seen for yourself what is really going on, and if you continue to believe the propaganda, you never will know the truth..

I don't see it that way, so I cannot answer that. They are angry and frustrated since the political process isn't working. We keep getting slates of politicians who perpetuate the injustices and pillaging of our nation's wealth, and people are fed up.

When injustice continues and people are desperate for change and don't know what else to do to effect change.

It is a symbolic number to represent the average people versus the wealthy who grow their wealth by buying votes through campaign donations and promises of remunerative employment after one leaves Congress. I'm not one who resents anyone who has earned or inherited their wealth. That isn't the same as having a Congressmen in your pocket siphoning taxpayers' money to your corporate coffers. Instead of criticizing the OWS I don't understand why more people aren't outraged about the corruption.

They are afraid of any large movement that wants to change the status quo.

I didn't know anyone was.

Cities aren't being destroyed. Obviously you are swallowing propaganda and haven't seen in person what is going on.

Ridiculous question. No one believes that is acceptable except vermin. The people doing that aren't representative of the OWS. They are opportunistic predators, not people who are there because they are protesting the status quo.

 

Hmmm.........this woman.........like many others, are also "part of the process".

Yeah, yeah.... I know....."few bad apples"....."cherry picking"............

So....... we have 5 dead now, rapes, rape shelters, rampant STD's, Zucotti Lung, Tuberculosis, lice infestation, drug dealing and overdoses, assaults, property damage, cutting cops with box cutters, threats of cocktail bombs, mountains of garbage, disgusting personal hygiene and sanitary conditions....... Is this also part of the process?

 

That is absurd. The only debates being held are why something isn't being done, or the shock at the poor hygiene and unsanitary conditions, the rapes, the violence, and the deaths.

Nobody is discussing, debating, or addressing any issues that some of the Occupy movement profess as they have not clearly articulated a grievance.

To be sure, there have been plenty who project their own personal grievances or put forth what they believe the movement to be about.....but that isn't what is being talked about.

There is no consensus, there is no organization, no platform, and no agenda. Nobody can claim to represent the movement and it's multitude of disparate and vague complaints resonate with ..........whom?

That is why the movement is doomed to fail. They have no message.

 

Uhhh NO, it doesn't. Anymore than people rubbernecking at a car crash means they care.

Many people here are simply talking about OWS cuz it's good cheap gossip and they're laughing at these protestors.

Okay, got it?

 

So this is not a message? Or don't you want to hear it?

 

Nobody is debating the Zucotti laundry list and the list of grievances could be entirely different from city to city. As I said. It is unorganized and the message has been lost in the antics and victims of the protests.

 

More like the media is feeding frenziedly on the so-called misdoings of a few so-called protestors.

Who could be either simple criminal elements you'd find every day in downtown Manhattan or plants employed by JP Morgan - who, you might remember, are also employing the NYPD to do its dirty work.

 

So called? The rapes and sexual assaults at Zuccotti are so bad that they created a womens shelter. Rapes in Houston, rape yesterday in Philadelphia. Murder in Oakland, Suicide in Vermont, overdose deaths in New Orleans and Vancouver... all attributed to Occupy.

It is a ridiculously fantastic leap of logic to presume that these activities are just normal events to be shrugged of particularly when it wasn't 2 years ago that the country was filled with weekly rallies of thousands in city after city as the Tea party rallied.......no arrests, no rapes, no sexual assaults, no over doses, and zero deaths.

 

I wonder why it is that the Republican cause is in such a frenzy with this when they are perfectly happy to tolerate another killing in another school or college or university, this week, or next week or next month?

 

Could you rephrase that one? I'm not sure if I understood it correctly.

It sounded as if you were trying to claim that Republicans....... are perfectly happy that there could be a killing in a school, college, or university.

That is so ridiculously asinine however that I'm sure some other meaning was intended..........

 

No it wasn't. Guns were intended as a means of self defense, or so I am led to believe here. Whenever a tragedy occurs that takes a life or lives by firearms, Republicans first defend the right to bear arms before they invoke their horror.

Asinine it may be to you, but what do you do to prevent it?

 

Lets go through his laundry list 1 by 1 and see just how fair this is:

So now our banks are in the business of losing millions of dollars to give free houses to people? What about the people still paying for thier homes? Does anyone consider about how they feel? Many of these people should've never gotten these houses in the first place.

Sure, the 1% are all rich and have just tons and tons of money for the US Government to confiscate? This is the (*)(*)(*)(*) Augustus and the other tyrants of Rome did when the fisc ran empty. Confiscate the property of the rich and force them to commit suicide or go into exile.

What about the people who worked thier asses off to pay their loans? What about next years class and the year after that. They still have to get loans and pay them off. So a very few select people get special treatment. That isn't equality!

Glass Steagall was out of date and wholly unsuitable for the modern market. Perhaps a new debate should be launched on an updated version, but the old one was simply ancient. We cannot use early 20th century ideas in the 21st century.

This is a violation of US Soveriegnty and a pre-cursor to a "world tax" put forth by socialists.

Ludditism, plain and simple. Technology is going to be leveraged in ways we cannot imagine and we can't ban it's use.

This one makes sense.

There was no law broken, and this is America and the Constitution says "No ipso post facto". That means we can't make a law out of scratch and then grandfather it to punish people after the fact. This is a direct violation of the Constitution.

This is again a violation of our Constitution and equal protection under the law. If we ban corporate money, then we must also ban union money, Grandma's bridge club, and any other group who pools resources to help candidates win elections.

Virtually ALL of these demands defecate directly all over the Constitution, Private Property Rights and the very foundations of the country.

Almost all of these fall under the perview of "inconveniences attending too much freedom, than not enough" that Thomas Jefferson warned us about.

Now maybe the left doesn't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about America's founding values and wants to see America turn into (*)(*)(*)(*) animal farm, but *I* and millions of Americans most certainly do.

This list is based on ignorance of history, constitutional law, and the founding values of our nation which puts economic freedom up there just as much as social/political freedom. They are one and the same.

I want the OWS supporters on here to tell me, do you respect our Constitution or not? Do you want it shredded and replaced or what? If you say yes, then you are a poor excuse for an American!

Our Constitution is not a populist document, it was designed to protect everyone, including the rich.

 

Actually I would be more interested in what you saw going on. Could you post more about it?

 

This movement is an unambiguous failure.

 

You are completely wrong, ignorant and bigoted.

Little POS's who think they know everything.

I bust my ass 50-60 hours a weeks or more directly serving the business needs of this nation in one of the oldest and most respected industries on the planet who the (*)(*)(*)(*) is some punk like you to question my integrity?

I'm not some (*)(*)(*)(*)ing corporate slave, I'm very well compensated for my work given the cost of living in my area. I'm not the one demanding more than a free society can give! I'm not the one demanding to be treated 'special' above and beyond the confines of the law like you.

You want to be treated like something special in society. Like you are special. You aren't (*)(*)(*)(*)ing special, you aren't even participating properly in the (*)(*)(*)(*) economy!

 

The Occupy Movement has been controlled by the establishment from the start. They want americans doing ineffective things like carrying signs and marching in streets.

When bankers are hanging from lamposts, that's when we'll see some changes.

 

So just (*)(*)(*)(*) the Constitution, the concept of life, liberty and private property rights huh?

(*)(*)(*)(*) you. Lets hang you from a lampost.

 

Maybe Tea Party women are so ugly they are not worth raping?

 

I think the thing that strikes me as so odd about the movement, is the raw hypocrisy of it. As in .... the rule of law does not currently apply to them because they are mad, upset, suffering, etc. Yet they want more laws made to take care of the injustices that they see to be enacted upon other people.

So now they can feel free to mess up property, create unsanitary conditions, and attack the police or others... just because they feel "helpless" at the moment? Does that work for me too? Can I get a group of 100 people together and we ride our cars at 100 mph down the highway because we feel the price of gas is too high? Since when is my personal anger or discomfort a licence to ignore the law?

The other aspect of the movement that I find odd... is that all of their wants and desires are about things that other people should be made to do.... but not them. Seriously.... you now have a movement with thousands of people in it.... and they are not trying to get one of their members into political office? Or educate themselves about bills that are being voted on so they can put pressure on their elected officials to vote the way that they would like them to? Do any of these people even vote at all on a regular basis?

If they believe business is so evil and corrupt, why not start OWS themed businesses, and show us how it should be done. Where is the OWS art store, where people can buy OWS themed art. Or the OWS tech center where computers are built or serviced. There are literally hundreds of businesses that should be able to be started with the number of people that they have. Maybe that is too much work.... banging a drum and yelling sounds like more fun.... in an andolescent sort of way.

Inherently... this is really child like behavior. A child cannot do things for themselves, they rely on other people to fullfill their needs. An adult has the ability to engage in activities to take care of himself. And more importantly... an adult WANTS to take care of themself.

Is this really any different than when children will stamp their feet and cry when they do not get their way? A child screams.... "I want it NOW!!!!" an adult asks... "What can I do here to get what I would like, and how could we compromise to get there"?

If you want to be treated with compassion and respect... then it might help to act the way that most adults would act. They all still have the power to vote.... use that. They have the power to decide whom they do business with. On this I acutally congratulate them. Shifting their money to smaller banks is completely legal and non-disruptive to anyone. And probably one of the more adult like things they have done. And lastly... they have the power to create their own businesses and show us the way to their promised land... If you have a better way.... and you can show it to me... I might even help you.

But really... sitting around and complaining... does not really motivate me....

 

I think, after having read this whole thread, that I can summarize as follows:

The rich are quite happy with the current system and don't want to see it changed.
The poor...not so much.
People swimming in cash LOVE the current system, and want more of it.
The poor...not so much.

In short...the corporate loving pigs at the trough are greedy and immoral, and have no wish to do things any differently, because, hey, they got theirs.
The bulk of the population that thinks there is something seriously wrong with this nonsense and want it drastically changed will prevail.

 

You don't seem to get it.

In the USA Our Constitution was written decades before Marx and the idea of the proletariat class and economic equality was created.

Our Founding Fathers were not populists, they were not building a utopia based on economic equality.

The America that you want to live in is impossible under our Current Constitution. Get over it.

There are only two ways to change it.

A)A constitutional Convention

B)Revolution

Those are your choices, and the vast majority of Americans do not favor rewriting our Constitution to establish a more modern social model.


This has nothing to do with who is feeding at what trough. This is about limits that were placed upon our society by law when that society was created.

 

Come on mr. magician you know you <3 2 QQ about OWS.
After all didn't you want to start a violent movement against them? Seems like someone who didn't care would not freak out like u know who did.

 

Because of comments like this I am leaving this forum.... It has been an interesting time.... but there is really no point in arguing with adults who behave as children do... or people that are actually children.

Comments like the above are childish, juvenille, hurtfull, and are done for no other purpose than to mock others. And even then not with any real goal or purpose. He would never have the courage to say such a thing in real life. That would take actual bravery and children usually just run away...

I had thought it might be a good place to spend a bit of time, and listen to others, toss around some ideas. But with so many voices here like the one above, it is clear that I really cannot learn anything here.... Like trying to discuss calculus equations with people that cannot even add or subtract yet.

So I think I will have to be content with leaving now.... and allowing the children in here to continually "scream" at each other. There is simply nothing in it for me anymore. I am sure there will be an appropriately juvenille response filled with the blind hatred that only spoiled children can know.

To the ones that I have had more in depth chats here with... I wish you well...

Moderators... feel free to terminate my account at your convienience... I will not be returning...

(And with a tip of my hat to the few here that I might have inspired along the way.... armor99 leaves the forum... )