The "1984" Mentality of Those Opposing Occupy Wall Street

OWS has captured the attention and participation of the entire world.
This is indisputible. They have a LOT of very legitimate concerns but
FOX, the RW e-media etc... have enslaved the minds of Conservatives,
much in the way of the book "1984".

Do NOT pay attention to the evidence! WE will tell you what to think.
WE will tell you your opinions.
This has been evidenced in other threads.

So when an Occupier says "We object to the level of influence afforded
Corporations and Special Interest Groups by Citizens United!"
A Conservative will reply as they have been instructed with something
like "You poop on streets!" or "That's not what you believe! As a NON-
member of the group, I will tell you what you are about!".
Notice how the issue is avoided and the need for Independent thought
is eliminated? Conservatives are simply not equipped to deal with the
ISSUES that OWS has brought up, so they parrot what they have been
taught.
The ISSUES?
* WE DON'T WANT TO END CAPTIALISM, WE want to end the Corporatacracy
and restore our Democratic Republic. For every hour a senator or
congressman spends with a citizen who has a legitimate concern, they
spend over 100 with a lobbyist, CEO or UNION LEADER (Oh (*)(*)(*)(*), that
eliminates the "Change the Subject Tactic that Conservatives use when
they can't address issues directly!). There is no voice of the people.
Anyone thinking our government is not run by money, is a fool.
* No more bank bailouts. This includes Fannie May and Freddie Mac, btw
(Oh (*)(*)(*)(*), that eliminates the "Change the Subject Tactic that
Conservatives use when they can't address issues directly!).
* Stop giving money belonging to We the People, away to the corrupt
politicians of foreign governments.
* No more subsidies or tax breaks to any company that doesn't hire
100% American, attribute their income 100% in America and pay their
taxes 100% in America.
* Reverse "Citizen's United" and put elections back in the hands of
The People.
* Repeal Gramm-Leach-Bliley (Like Newt Says!).


Those are just some of the ISSUES. How will Conservatives respond to
the issues? We all know. Dodge, change the subject, Project What they
Have been Instructed to Believe etc... For instance, a favorite tactic is to say
"Well they haven't discussed Fannie May!" (which they have) or "They are not
against Solyndra!" (which came along afterward and many OWS oppose). Well
guess what Conservs. The Tea Party didn't promote ending the intereference of
religion in politics. They're overwhelingly old and Conservative. OWS is
overwhelmingly Young and Liberal. So duh. Gee. Go figure. Just a tactic to dodge
the issues they bring up. Replace them with your own.
But they won't address the issues of OWS. Their ThoughtMasters have told them
not to...

 

I see your point. And I see that your dilemma is that YOU are listening to the wrong sources. Conservative Fox watchers mostly AGREE that the "level of influence afforded Corporations and Special Interest Groups" is too great. They mostly agree that there is TOO MUCH disparity between the ultra rich and the ultra poor.

But here's the problem that Conservatives (I'm not one) have with it:

1- They think Obama is destructive to the U.S. (so do I)

2- They think that many at the OWS are NOT there for the good reason that you stated, and I quoted. (so do I)

3- They know that many of the OWS are outright destructive to the U.S.

4- They want to equate the destructive element of the OWS with Obama in order to help get rid of both the destructive part of the OWS AND Obama.

5- Ya gotta admit, the OWS, if they were as smart as sincere as we wished, they'd be outside Congress and the White House, not Wall Street.

Big business is the briber. Politicians are the bribees. The bribees are actually the only ones who can fix the entire situation. Therefore, picket THEM, not the bribers.

One more little problem. And this is just my personal observation-

I am neither Con nor Lib. But it is pretty obvious to me that the problem with too many Cons is that they are too greedy, and the problem with too many Libs is that they are too dishonest.

At this point of civilization, dishonest is far more dangerous than greedy.

And I think you are SO correct about no more bank bailouts, and NO MORE breaks to companies who don't hire American.
I don't even think companies should be allowed to export jobs or branches of their company. If they do, they shouldn't be allowed to sell their product to Americans.

 

That's an accurate assessment. We see it here every day.

Yes. Those are mindless, knee-jerk reactions.

To be fair, we see liberals do it, too, just about different issues.

There are too many fools on both sides. Look who we ended up with as presidents in 2004 and 2008.

We've seen how they respond. I have read some very thoughtful, intelligently-presented OPs about the OWS immediately followed by comments about hippies, poopers, rapists, murderers, etc. They exhibit as much brain matter as people who use the terms *********s, fleabaggers, *******s and conservetards.

 

Oh please...the issue you are presenting is not the issue at hand my friend. First off, there are thousands of signs on OWS saying "Down with capitalism". Now, ignoring that, if you don't want to end capitalism (which is the U.S no longer has anyway), what do you want? Corporations are doing everything correct...and if they are breaking the law without getting punished, thats the government's fault. So protest against the government. Protesting against corporations won't get their attentions...because I can assure you they don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) the filth that occupies wallstreet.

And for everything else you listed...conservatives generally support. Its the democrats that support giving billions to foreign nations and support illegals.

 

The Republicans do the same thing. The only difference is the rhetoric they use to fool their supporters.

 

You were making fairly good points up and until you ended the response by stating that Cons are too greedy. Greedy is just another liberal talking point that isn't based in reality. Unless you consider any American who favors 'Capitalism' over socialism, and an enthusiastic work ethic of a free market economic system to be greedy, then I'll just have to assume that you haven't had your strongest cup of coffee yet today.

 

If THE Number one beef of the OWS crowd is Crony Capitalism then
why not one mention of Solyndra from any Protestor.
That makes a lot of sense.

 

Defecating on public property has the entire world watching!

 

Wronged.Republicans Talk Turkey.Democrats LIE.
Huge difference.Republicans have a history of fixing things.
Name one thing the Democrat Party has fixed in 50 years.
Don't dare say civil rights.It was Republicans who got that thru.

 

Lemme post this again:



Unfortunately for the OWS movement, it has devolved into this:

 

I wouldn't go THAT far but if we took the money given to Multi-Nationals through Tax Breaks, subsidies etc... We could subsidize enough jobs here, to reduce unemployment by 3% OVERNIGHT (assuming a $30,000 subsidy per job) at ZERO cost to American businesses. Just one idea but not an official OWS narrative.
Pleasure to read your post AND your opposing ideas.

 

I see how it is irrational certainly. You poop on the streets is basically a form of ad hominem, which is certainly irrational(and I do see that argument coming from those opposed to OWS all the time). However, I fail to see the 1984 connection. People have made irrational arguments throughout human history, and irrationality does is not the sole purview of those opposed to OWS. So while I agree many of the criticisms of OWS coming from the right are silly, that doesn't mean they are Orwellian in nature.

 

Both reactions make little sense!! The only sensible reaction to that reality is to oppose both entities, and search for ways to rectify that situation. I can think of only one, and that is to make campaigns publicly financed, so as to take the money(bribes) out of the system. That would remove the distorted incentives people in government have to do the business of large corporations, instead of the people. Then government could act in support of big business when it is in the best interests of everyone, and oppose big business when it isn't. There are other things I could think of, like making it illegal to legislate entities you have ever or currently receive money from. In other words, there is no law against people in government taking money to speak at a conference by BP(or whoever), it would just then be illegal to go and pass a law favorable to BP. Do all that can be done to remove the bribery from the system.

 

I've been to meetings and rallies of BOTH the Tea Party and OWS. This is the impression I get:

Public Financing of Elections
OWS = Overwhelmingly for it
Tea Party = Overwhelmingly against it

Undo "Citizen's United"
OWS = Overhwelmingly for it
Tea Party = Overwhelmingly against it

Now that's only the sentiment I got from the folks locally so if Tea Partiers are FOR Public Financing and overturning Citizen's United, I'd love to hear from them.
Of course, that would require Conservatives discussing the issues OWS puts forward...

 

I think conservatives are acting pretty much as you would expect anybody with corrupted interests to act.

 

You can deride the movement all you want with convenient isolation and inflation, it's rolling accross America and will roll right over the problems creators. There are so many factions to OWS that cherry picking the outstanding stupidity of the hangers-ons is all you can do in the blatant desperation of seeing con ways coming to an end, thanx to the vast majority that don't poop in public or disrupt illegally.
con frustration is understandable, and fun to watch.

 

Nonsense. GW Bush presided over the bailouts. How did that "fix" work out?

Many tea partiers (excluding yours truly) voted Republican in 2008 to see some change. How is that working out? The Patriot Act is still in place along with other odious policies that should have been abolished such as extraordinary rendition and perpetual war.

Neither party is there to fix anything. They are feathering their nests. No matter which party is in power, they ignore the Constitution, spend too much, the war machine grows, and civil liberties shrink. What have the Republicans done to fix any of that?

 

Why are they protesting in all those cities around the country instead of Washington DC? The TARP bill was sponsored bt Democrats and the preponderance of the votes yea votes were Democrat. The majority of Republicans voted NO to bailouts and overwhelmingly voted NO to the bailout executives bonuses on the tax payers dime. Go see your "all for the little guy" president, former speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and Senate majority leader "Hapless" Harry Reid about the bonuses. They are to blame for that and the bailouts. That's how you know, either the OWS movement is made up of terminally ignorant people or a put up job by foreign back, US based liberals for their own profit and big labor who are being rendered insignificant by the budget crunch and the bad economy.

 

Because they know where where the majority of the most major problems lay, and after we take care of the cons and their equally greedy 1%, we'll take aim on DC and clean it up too. First things first. Wouldn't want the biggest problems to keep getting a free pass, ya know.

 

B.S.!

How many times does this need to be debunked? Who sponsored bill? Who passed the bill with a preponderance of their votes?

Of the 274 Sponsor and co-sponsors 37 were Republican and 238 Democrats. By what stretch of the imagination can you say Bush presided over it? The Democrats sponsored a bill with little or no oversight and it's little wonder when you look at Obama's Donor list. Pay special not to the date on the bill, little more than a month before the election. Had Bush vetoed it, the cat calling on how he and the Republicans didn't want to help the country would have been deafening. The majority of Republicans voted NO on the bailout as well as the Stimulus bill which specified bailout execs could take their bonuses from taxpayers money.

How painfully obvious does it have to get who is actually responsible for the bailout execs bonuses at taxpayers expense. It was written into the Text of H.R. 1: American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. You know the one the Republicans in both houses refused to vote for. The Democrats must bear full responsibility for bailout companies execs being able to award themselves bonuses for the economic disaster they in a big way created. Bonuses they used OUR tax dollars to pay for.

 

Over 9% unemployment for the longest sustained time in the history of this country. STILL over 9% unemployment, 16+% underemployment (stimulus jobs), $4+ trillion dollars in new debt in less than 3 years, home foreclosures continuing unabated by any Obama plan, gasoline hovering around $4 a gallon while Cuba and Venezuela suck the gulf dry and food prices hitting the stratosphere. That's the platform the Democrats have to run on? The Democrat party lost a historic 63 seats in the House in 2010. Yet liberals insist they will make gains in in 2012??? Not on this planet. The unless unemployment some how gets down to below 8% in the next 12 months, the Democrat party will all but cease to exist a year from now. Folks need jobs and the Democrats stimulus of 2009 failed to deliver anything but keep Government union workers employed. Do you really think the American people can't see that? Good luck next year, only a miracle can save your party and since most Democrats don't believe in God....well that's not going to happen either.

 

There's not enuf TP on earth to begin cleaning up your mess-age of delusion.
You can thank Bush and the current con-gress obstructionistas for all you complain about, and should kiss Obama's brown eye for saving us all from the Bush depression and keeping hope and change alive. But thanx for trying...

 

Four things Professor (and I will refrain from returning your insults, in an effort to see if reasonable conversation is possible).

1. You refer to Obama's bailouts and seem to conveniently forget Bush's. Jus' sayin'.
2. Are you aware that MANY of the 2nd Phase Occupiers do NOT condone Obama's actions regarding the bailouts and also allowing Lobbyists to continue the "Revolving Door" from the WH to the Private Sector?
We consider him nothing more than another suit. Unfortunately, given the choice between him and those who claim that "Corporations are people", he seems the lesser of two evils. We do not hold him harmless or without culpability though.
3. There has been a campaign of 2nd Phase Occupiers to contact every one of our elected representatives to discuss legitmate issues, such as Citizen's United and Gramm-Leach-Bliley. They don't have time for us. They're too busy with lobbyists, union leaders (who we ALSO don't want to have any more power than a single citizen) and CEO's. We can't get their time or attention. This does.
4. I fully acknowledge there are a lot of people in OWS who are a bad element. But for now, we are leaderless and do our best to keep things peaceful.

 

I like the independent way the OWS nitwits stand and "speak with one voice" by mindlessly echoing whatever the leader says. It's so "independent".

 

I like the way ConservaRepubs have posted two dozen replies and not one has had the intellect or balls to even TRY to address any of the issues lived in the op!