Americans outsourcing their pollution to China

All those environmental regulations in the USA will not mean anything if the country continues to allow its manufacturing to be outsourced to China were there are no pollution laws (the few laws that do exist are rarely enforced).

Air pollution in one the main cities:
http://cargocycling.org/tag/air-pollution-china

It is so bad that most of the people wear face masks:


China emitts more carbon dioxide than any other country on earth:


China's rivers are being heavily polluted:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenpeaceuk/5932903239/
http://latestchina.com/article/?rid=21475

Why is free trade being allowed with China when it refuses curb pollution or enforce environmental protections? What is the point of preventing pollution in the USA when most things in the USA are actually made in China? Without solving the problem about China, more envirormental regualtions in the USA will just drive more and more manufacturing to China. Indeed, many of the laws passed in the USA that were meant to help the envirorment and reduce pollution have done just the opposite, by driving production to China where industry is allowed to pollute as much as they want and not worry about the consequences. Electric production in China is also much more polluting than that in the USA because Chinese coal power plants are significantly less efficient, do not have filters to reduce particulate emissions, and use cheaper butimous sulfur coal that causes acid rain. This matters because Chinese factories are much more wasteful and energy-intensive than those in the USA. The fact that the Chinese government heavily subsidizes the cost of electric power does not help the incentive for conservation.

The best way for the USA to reduce pollution is to put a pollution tax on all Chinese imports, unless the products have been certified to have come from a factory that meets minimum environmental standards. Making it expensive for American companies to meet environmental regulations while allowing Americans free access to Chinese products gives an unfair advantage to corporations that own factories in China. Factories in the USA that want to try to be more eco-friendly have trouble competing with China.

 

While I personally love free trade, the main cause for the pollution in China is the fact that no one is allowed to protest afaik. There's no one to take up the cause of environmental rights and thus corporations don't care, as they sell most of their stuff to people who aren't affected and thus don't care whatsoever.

 

same thing happened in Europe.

http://www.greenfudge.org/2010/03/1...carbon-footprint-–-when-trade-is-factored-in/

 

Why do you blame American companies for what Chinese State Owned Companies do in China? Those are not American factories, but Chinese ones run by the State. Virtually all factories in China are such, American corporations tell the Chinese what they want built and the Chinese build it and then sell it to the corporation at a steep discount and that corporation middle mans it to us. They don't actually pay the Chinese workers and they don't build the factories, etc etc.

The Chinese workers don't work directly for the American company itself, they work for the Chinese State and the State does what it wants.

Stop trying to enact stealth protectionism. That is a tariff you are proposing and nothing else but.

 

There should be a tariff.

Not least of which to help pay for American defence positioned to help limit possible agressive chinese expansion in the south pacific. When America allows free trade with China, it is essentially giving the Chinese military more money. Yet at the same time, the USA is spending billions of dollars to prepare for a potential Chinese threat. Just look at the new military base being constructed in Australia. The USA also has a huge military base in Kyrgyzstan.

Why is the USA spending so much money to counter the threat from China, and curb carbon dioxide emissions, while at the same time promoting trade with China? It almost seems the USA is working against itself.

For those concerned about global warming, the single most effective policy to reduce carbon dioxide emissions would be to reduce trade with China, or somehow hold Chinese factories exporting to the USA to higher environmental standards.

 

The last time I checked, there was only one planet Earth. Transferring pollution from point A to point B still pollutes the Earth. The analogy with electric cars deals with power production. If there isn't a move to institute nuclear power, it's just politics to give the illusion of "doing something". If you are in favor of passing rigorous pollution laws in the USA, don't just talk like a duck, walk like a duck. Stop using the items produced that create pollution, limit your shower time, limit your calorie intake and minimize your thermostat settings. Many greenies like Al Gore talk like a duck but eat like a hippo.

 

only the major strategic company are own by chiense government. all the middle to small bussiness is privately owned.

 

Yet another call for a protectionist tariff. Not a tariff to protect American industries but to protect American over-regulation.

Somewhere, Smoot and Hawley are smiling.

 

I am just pointing out that it is extremely inconsistent for the USA to be trying to reduce pollution in their own country, through taxes and pollution credits, but not to do anything about its trade with China.

It is almost as if American corporations have a loophole in China to escape the environmental laws being pushed on them by environmentally-concerned voters in the USA.

 

Behold the fruits of environmental extremism in the US!

If the US had instituted reasonable environmental regulations in the US and stopped with that, nobody would have gone to China.

Reasonable regulations: 40 CFR 60
Unreasonable regulations: New Source Review (40 CFR 52.21) and the 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments in their entirety

Prior to the promulgation of the extreme regs (late 70s and early 90s) offshoring was thought to be too much of a pain in the butt to do. After these were promulgated, it was a matter of survival. Offshore or die. Some went offshore. Some went bust.

Enough was never enough. The extremists wanted a completely pristine environment in the US and by golly, they got it. But the jobs and pollution went offshore and has anybody (other than the Chinese) really gained anything?

 

The scant environmental laws that china does have are so poorly enforced that I do not think the USA could compete even if the USA did repeal its environmental protections back to basic levels. Few Americans would tolerate this sort of pollution:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16951806
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070709-china-pollution.html

Chinese are getting sick just drinking their water!
http://www.benthamscience.com/open/toenvirj/articles/V002/1TOENVIRSJ.pdf

 

For those of you concerned about global warming, consider that China is the world's biggest source of carbon dioxide emissions.



Most of this pollution is from producing manufactured goods to export to the rest of the world, the USA being China's biggest trading partner. Any serious attempt to cut worldwide CO2 emmissions will have to involve Chinese international trade.

 

Will be interesting to see if Obama dances to Beijing's tune...

China tells U.S. to stop tweets on Beijing's bad air
5 June`12 – China told foreign embassies Tuesday to stop publishing their own reports on air quality in the country, escalating its objections to a popular U.S. Embassy Twitter feed that tracks pollution in smoggy Beijing.

See also:

China warns foreign embassies not to monitor pollution
5 June 2012 - Chinese cities like Beijing often have poor air quality

 

I should have known. Another call for mindless protectionism.

Hint: Protectionism doesn't work.

 

I guess some people think that globalization is an artificial construct that can just be turned on and off. They obviously don't understand trying to stop globalization is like trying to stop the tide from coming in and wiping out your sand castle. Globalization is a natural outgrowth of technological advance and cannot just be turned off, at least not without destroying whats left of the US economy.

 

You all act as if protectionism = no trade. It's total bull(*)(*)(*)(*). As if since sales tax was invented nothing was ever sold again. People traded long before free trade came around. Free trade is nothing more than global redistribution of wealth. For guys who claim to be rightists, you're sure proving otherwise. I'll ignore the fact you obviously have no loyalty to your nation, though I doubt a future nationalist party will ignore such a fact.

 

Economic nationalism is dead, except among the ignorant peasantry.

I like Wal Mart and have no desire to pay "American made" prices for my Chinese crap. Stop trying to force me into economic bondage to the fat, lazy, American worker. I don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*).

Instead of protectionism, why don't we encourage more people to retrain into STEM careers or other value added jobs? We don't need "sock and jock" makers anymore.

Hint: Globalization is not a conspiracy and it's not a choice. Its going to happen no matter what.

 

Nor will we about you when the time comes. By all means, run your mouth then.

 

"When the time comes.." .. yeah, first day after hell freezes.

 

Funny, given that globalisation has brought us down to where we are now.

 

Wow! I think hell did just freeze over.
I agree with SM.

It is like the move to robotics 30 years ago. All the B&M did not stop the advance of technology. Jobs were lost but the economy re-adjusted. It is like the development of the assembly line; jobs were lost, but the economy re-adjusted. And so it will be with globalization. The sooner we stop B'ing& M'ing and start re-training the sooner the US will be back on top.
The idiots who want to destroy our educational system are the anchor that will send us to the bottom.

 

There is nothing natural about elected officials knowingly hurting their own citizenry for the sake of other nations. I suppose in your minds private central bankers are "natural technical evolution". The last line of your post is the hint to fake leftism, like that of SM's fake rightism. Soon you two will be in the same party, and rightly so. The days of your globalist politics having a duopoly of control will be over.

It went from me being the only nationalist capitalist to dozens on this site in a couple of years. It went from types like you all coming onto our threads, to now starting your own to curb the tide. But like the issue of the FED, those who truly support, once all information is on the table, dwindle with each passing day. The only one's who support free trade are those making a mint off America's destruction, and the globalized left who dream of one world and hate American exceptionalism. There is no such thing as bad publicity when it comes to the truth. And each time this subject is brought up, like the FED, the wave grows in momentum. Your days are numbered.

 

Wow! I could ask you for the names of those elected officials but I have a pretty good idea of the name that you would provide.
So in your opinion the solution to globalization is protectionism?
America's destruction will be brought about by those who have their heads in the sand and fail to adapt to the real world. America's destruction will be brought about by those who maintain that believe in American "exceptionalim". Go read about previous empires and the reasons for their failures. Failure to adapt and failure to understand their enemies are 2 reasons for their failures.

 

Wherever it is applied, protectionism brings poverty.

Protectionism (except for purposes of national defense) is thus unacceptable.

 

America was built on large government externally, military/protectionism, and small government internally. Free trade has only been the last 3 decades. "We were all in huts before free trade!!!" Do you all ever stop to think maybe your professors and the authors you read are full of (*)(*)(*)(*)?