The Jews as "God's Chosen." What, exactly, does it mean?

I don't pretend to be anything remotely close to an expert in theology.
I'm not here to debate. I'm here to learn.

I'm confused by some Christians who seem to mistake "God's Chosen" for "God's Favorite and Beloved."

A former neighbor of mine was a Priest and we would regularly talk about politics, religion, world affairs, etc. After a lengthy discussion about the Bolshevik revolution and the fact that the Jewish people were largely responsible for not only bringing this revolution about but also, in many cases, directly responsible for carrying out its most horrendous atrocities which included starving and shooting and gassing to death tens of millions of Russians (many of them Christians), I asked him: Why the Jews? It doesn't make any sense.

I went on to point out that the character of the Jews historically has always been one of theft, trouble making and ruthlessness dating back thousands of years. This all on top of the obvious fact that they killed Christ.

So again, why the Jews?

He gave me an interesting answer.

He agreed that the Jews have always been an antagonistic people who crave wealth and who crave power and who have often attained both.
He then explained that that is precisely why God had to choose the Jews, that only through such an antagonistic and strong willed people could his prophecy be fulfilled.

To give me an example he talked about how if God had made someone like the Quakers his chosen people none of his prophecies could be realized because the Quakers would just mind their own business in peace. There was no chance that the Quakers, for example, would broker through power politics for the recreation of Israel.

He then went on to say that just because the Jews were "God's chosen" that that didn't at all mean that they were God's favored. They are a tool.

Now i'm not a Christian. At least i'm not on about 364 days out of every year. Yet I did find this to be a pretty compelling answer and one that makes sense to me.

What are your thoughts on it? I do find myself puzzled at Christians in America often acting like sycophants for the Jewish people considering how hostile left wing Jews seem to be towards Christianity.

Do a lot of people have this wrong and falsely believe that they owe some allegiance to the Jewish people through a complete misinterpretation of what "God's Chosen" means?

 

Another example I forgot to mention is that there was no way that a people like the Quakers could infuriate the world to such an extent that it would mobilize all the armies of all the nations against Israel.

 

It was not as though God looked down on the earth and decided to choose the Jewish people over the others. God made this people from the stock of Abraham for the purpose of being a nation of God on the earth. And from this people He would bring His laws and the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

It is because the Jews are chosen of God that they are a source of problem for the world. If they were in a right relationship with God, they would be a problem for the world because the Messiah would be ruling over the world at this time. And the world doesn't like the rule of God. They are not now in a right relati0nship with God, and thus under the judgement of God and a problem for the world. They are a problem for the world as they won't go away because God has purpose for them.

As a Christian, I recognize Gods purpose for the Jews. And I recognize that I come under the salvation that God has established, which involves the Jews, as salvation is of the Jews. I recognize that though Israel is at present at odds with God, God will accomplish His purpose for her as the leading nation of the world from where Jesus Christ will rule and reign in Jeruslaem. The unbelieving Jews at this time do not affect what I know God is going to do.

Quantrill

 

And are Jews allegedly going to enjoy some level of authority in this kingdom or has their role as the Chosen come to its conclusion by this point making them only a tool for fulfilling prophecy?

Are you a theologian of any authority or is this just the opinion of a humble and devout Christian?

As you can probably tell I am no great fan of the Jewish people. What they did in the U.S.S.R. disgusts me. What they did to Germany infuriates me. What they're doing to America makes me sick.

I can't imagine that any just and righteous God would reward all of this insanity and treachery with lordship over the world under the leadership of a messiah they once had nailed to a cross.

 

Understand that the Jews as the chosen race are still the chosen race. But they are at this time under the judgement of God. They have been since since their being judeged by the Assyrians, then the Babylonians, then Rome in 70 A.D. Because they rejected their Messiah, Jesus Christ, then they continue in this rebellion and judgement from God.

And just because one is born a Jew doesn't mean they are going to heaven. They reject their God. They reject Jesus Christ. Thus the vast majority at this time do not go to Heaven. But the race of the Jews is still chosen. It will be from that people that will come the leading nation of the world from where Christ will physically rule in Jerusalem. 'Chosen race' by God does not indicate any superiority of that race. It only indicates it is of God and God will accomplish what He said through this race.

I am well versed in the Bible and if your interested I can prove these things I have said. That doesn't mean you will agree with them, but they are not just an opinion. And it is not just mine. It is a lengthy subject.

I know not everything the Jews do is right. And when its not right then it should be labled as wrong. I don't see them as solely responsible for Germany's problems. There was so many things going in Germany after WW1 that contributed to Germany's downfall. And some would involve Jewish people. But also there were some Jewish people who were Germans that did all they could to help Germany.

Well, yes, its hard to imagine that. But, its hard to imagine that God would enact a plan of slavation for the individual that envolvled the death of His Son. But He did. That Jesus Christ would die for many when they at the time were enemies of God.

The Jews when in a right relationship with God are not going to be like Jews who are in rebellion against God. Just like we who are Christian, are not like we used to be before we came to Christ.

Quantrill

 

But those are the Zionists. They follow mainly the Talmud. There is a difference between Talmudic Jews and Torah Jews. Zionists are European converts to Judaism who have caused problems in the name of Judaism. Think of them like a Jewish al-Qaida or Taliban.

As for the whole chosen people thing. A member on this forum brought up a really good point. At the time, Jews were the chosen ones. Because at the time they were the only religion following a revelation of God from Moses (PBUH). As they corrupted their religion and were expelled from historic Israel, الله SWT brought humanity Jesus (PBUH) to lead the people back to him. However, the Christians then corrupted their religion, and so الله SWT sent Muhammad (PBUH) to guide people back to him again.

So, really anybody who believes in God/Yahweh/الله/Jehovah are his chosen people.

Zionists Talmud - common book among "Israeli" European Jews - is NOT a revelation from God and some could argue a book from the Devil. The Torah is the book of Moses, (PBUH) given to him by الله SWT.

سلام

 

I am aware of the Ashkenazi Jewish converts and perhaps I should make a stronger effort to distinguish between Jew and the Zionist of this variety. This also raises another question. Are the current leaders and people of Israel even the descendants of Abraham? Is this Israeli state even the Israel of prophecy that Christianity has been waiting for or is it an imposter nation?

I'm delighted to see informed answers to these questions. I was half expecting the usual irrational Judeo-philiac tripe from intellectually lazy people who seem to get their religious doctrine from the Sean Hannity show.
Very refreshing and very fascinating.

 

Ok, learn this. You are not a Christian. Rather focus on the meat of the Bible and not the sizzle, then perhaps you will come to the knowledge and wisdom of He, the Savior of this world.

 

The founder of the Zionist movement modern "Israel" is a Hungarian Ashkenazi European Jew. Ashkenazi's are not Semetic Jews. Neither are Khazar Jews. These are the two main sects of Judaism behind Zionism.

Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews are Semetic, and have been living in the Middle East for a very long time. And before "Israel" was created, the Jews Muslims and Christians of Palestine and the Middle East lived peacefully together. Interesting to point out, Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews are also persecuted in "Israel" by the Ashkenazi/Khazar Zionists.

The Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews are Semites, speak Hebrew, and most followed the Torah. So yes, they are the descendants of Abraham (PBUH). However, the European Jews are not. They are converts and European, not Middle Eastern. And Abraham and Isaac (PBUT) were not Europeans. The European Zionists speak Yiddish and are not Semites, native to Europe (mainly Germany and Russia).

This modern "Israel" we see today, committing countless war crimes, is an illegitimate Zionist state. Ask Jews themselves and they will tell you "Israel" is illegitimate. The true Torah Jews will. There are many anti-"Israel" - Pro-Palestine Jewish groups and Rabbi groups out there. Ironically the Zionists label them anti-Semites lol...

I like to think I know what I'm talking about

سلام

 

Is this really the thread to try and convert people? Is this (a forum, the Internet) really a place to try and convert people? Is there ever a place to try and convert people?

You do not need to read the Bible, Quran, Torah, Talmud or follow Christianity, Islam, Judaism or be Zionist, to understand "Israel" and Zionism.

سلام

 

The Jews were chosen through the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Ishamael was rejected. It was through Isaac. Gen. 17:17-19

Muhammed is no prophet of the true God, of the Bible. And the Koran is no further revelation of God.

Quantrill

 

It's called Jewish over enthusiasm .

God did tell them they were chosen , but they fail to tell you that he had first said that the English were his number one choice with the Jews coming an honourable second .

 

Rule #1. Don't learn about any religion from a religious authority.

 

Fist thing is, the Jews of today are not Semitic,except for less than %2
This from their own study of Jews by Jews from around the world. They are traced back to Turkey and Mongolia....they are Khazars or Ashkenazi....converts.... 1901-1905 editions JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA...


Historically, Christianity never believed that Jews were "the chosen people". this is a recently developed yarn,going back to the Scofield Bible scam. The Jews have pulled the wool over Americans eyes on a great many things...like the slave trade for instance,it was dominated by the Jews,and they were shipping slaves through the Southern Seas a century before any pilgrim set foot in America

Dr. Seymour B. Liebman

"They came with ships carrying African blacks to be sold as slaves. The traffic in slaves was a royal monopoly, and the Jews were often appointed as agents for the Crown in their sale....[They] were the largest ship chandlers in the entire Caribbean region, where the shipping business was mainly a Jewish enterprise....The ships were not only owned by Jews, but were manned by Jewish crews and sailed under the command of Jewish captains."

New World Jewry 1493-1825: Requiem for the Forgotten (KTAV, New York, 1982), pp. 170, 183.


As far as the chosen people Brother Nathanael can tell best in this short video clip


We know that Saul was the first king of Israel and that John was the first man called Baptist, but who was the first Jew? Neither Adam, Seth or Noah are called Jew. Nor were Abraham, Isaac or Jacob. Moses was not called a Jew and neither were Saul, David or Solomon called Jew. In fact you will not find the word Jew in the first eleven books of the Bible. The first time Jews are mentioned in the Bible, is in II Kings 16:6 (and then only in translations revised in the eighteenth century) where we find Israel was at war with the Jews and drave the Jews from Elath. Isn't it interesting that we can read over five hundred pages of the Bible before we find a Jew anywhere, yet those who call themselves Jew today claim the first five books of the bible and call it their Torah
http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=621

 

If you read the Bible you will see that God was not pleased with them for most of their history.......they were stiff necked.

Deuteronomy 31:27 (ASV)
27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against Jehovah; and how much more after my death?


Jeremiah 7:26 (ASV)
26 yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff: they did worse than their fathers.



God chose them because Abraham, Isaac and Jacobs were obedient to Him, and because of His promise to their fore fathers.

Deuteronomy 7:5-8 (YLT)
5 `But thus thou dost to them: their altars ye break down, and their standing pillars ye shiver, and their shrines ye cut down, and their graven images ye burn with fire;
6 for a holy people art thou to Jehovah thy God; on thee hath Jehovah thy God fixed, to be to Him for a peculiar people, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the ground.
7 `Not because of your being more numerous than any of the peoples hath Jehovah delighted in you, and fixeth on you, for ye are the least of all the peoples,
8 but because of Jehovah's loving you, and because of His keeping the oath which He hath sworn to your fathers, hath Jehovah brought you out by a strong hand, and doth ransom you from a house of servants, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.


1 Chronicles 16:16-19 (ESV)
16 the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac,
17 which he confirmed as a statute to Jacob, as an everlasting covenant to Israel,
18 saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan, as your portion for an inheritance."
19 When you were few in number, and of little account, and sojourners in it,


And by the way, the Jews are not the house of Israel. The Jews are of the tribe of Judah, which was one of the twelve tribes of Israel.

The tribe of Judah and Israel are mentioned seperatly.

2 Samuel 5:4-5 (ASV)
4 David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years.
5 In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months; and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty and three years over all Israel and Judah.


God removed the tribe of Israel from His sight and left the tribe of Judah.

2 Kings 17:18 (ASV)
18 Therefore Jehovah was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.


And under the New Covenant God's chosen people are those who make up the Church.


1 Peter 2:9-10 (ESV)
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.


So any Christian that say that God's chosen people are the Jews don't know what they are talking about. The Old Covenant that was based on race(the Israelites) is dead, and was replaced by the New Covenant of grace(anyone that God calls becomes His chosen one, once they repents and believe the gospel).

 

So how is it that the vast majority of American Christians seem to be such idolizers of what today passes for the Jewish people?
I recall reading some years ago about the Schofield revision.
Was text removed or altered? Or do they simply not read their own Holy Book?

Or am I judging Christians wrongly based on watching neo-con news networks?
At least on the internet Christians seem to have an illogical and sometimes outright bizarre love of the Jews.

 

Yay, irrational hatred of a religion. Never seen that before.

Or do I hear tip-tapping on a bridge?

 

A lot of Christians don't study the Bible for the most part. Many basically use a few chosen scripture and ignore the rest. A lot are more loyal to what they hear the pastor say in Church than what the Bible say.

Ask most Christians in the U.S a question that they don't know and they either ignore the question or divert to something else that has nothing to do with the question.

 

Very helpful posts, by the way,
Very much appreciated. And thank you double for arranging the versus for me.

 

My pleasure.

 

I find it hard to believe a catholic priest in this day and age would be extressing suc anti semitic views.

they have been out of favour with the catholic church for decades.

are you sure you aren't making up that he was a priest to give legitimacy to your own antisemitism?

 

Reverend, Minister, Pastor, Preacher.... Priest.
Beg your forgiveness. It's been awhile since i've attended Church.

I believe he was a Protestant.

 

so he was expressing his own personal anti semitism, and his status as a priest is irrelevant .... but thrown in just to give the antisemitism inherent in your post credibility?

 

Excellent.
I'm glad you're here.

You're a great example of the very sort of knee-jerk Christian we've been talking about. This is a teachable moment for everyone.

You've posted twice. First to call me an anti-semite.
Now to call a good natured and compassionate Protestant Pastor you've never met an anti-semite.

I didn't need to invent a story to give me post credibility. Were I to invent the story I would have left the Pastor out of it and make myself look more knowledgeable and insightful on the subject, don't ya' think? Rather than give an "imaginary friend" credit for explaining the purpose of choosing the Jews?

You can accuse me of a lot of things if you like but accusations of dishonesty are false ones. I simply brought a personal story to a Christian section of the forum to go along with a theological question.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

I'm not a christian, but the content of your post is pretty clearly anti semitic, and not based on theology as far as I can tell.

there were plenty of early church fathers who promoted the "killers of christ" as a justification for differential treatment, and over almost two thousand years the church used this as an excuse to allow the persecution of Jews.

also, since at least the middle ages the notion of jews being catalysts for death and destruction, and other sinister "blood libel" claims have been promoted - often by the church (it helped in the Inquisition).

but there is no truth in it, and purveyors of these myths are quite correctly identified as antisemitic.