Left Vs Right - I don't get it

I am new here. I am not American, but I follow American politics.

I have noticed when I read the posts that there is a real effort to demonize the Left or the Right. I would really like to see some common sense in the discussions. Isn't it possible that you all would like to see the Govt spend more efficiently? I am sure you all agree on the principle of paying your taxes so that an administrative body (Govt) can do your bidding. You may have differing priorities but you all want good roads, you all want good schools, you all want to know that your money is being spent wisely.

You have all wasted money on foolish things. Your Government is bound to do the same thing. Election day is when you send your message.

Republican's say they want smaller government but they are the first to ask government to help control social policies dealing with gays, abortion and a host of other issues.

The Democrats do not promote big government They do, however, support it by asking Government to intervene in a myriad of economic and social issues.

Ultimately as a people you have to decide what is important to you and support the party that currently, best delivers, on those issues.

By basing arguments on what horrible things will happen if the Lefties have there way or if the Right wingers get there way misses the mark. It is juvenile. Your Country has survived many governments both right and left leaning. All in all you seem to be doing okay.

To be perfectly honest, from an outsider, your left isn't very Stalin like and your right isn't very Hitler like. There are differences to be sure, but they are not as drastic as the debates here seem to indicate.

You have a great country, healthy debate is part of your history. Keep the debates healthy. It is possible for someone with a different perspective to have a good point.

- Rjay

 

It's ironic, as Americans have the narrowest political spectrum. The Democrats and Republicans would be a part of the same coalition or even party in most other nations. It's such simple things they fight over.

Out of 100, they fight over 5-6 points. Sad and unoriginal. Never will they escape the wrath of Keynes!

 

Clearly not.

No. There isn't even this level of consensus. The Republicans would tear up their own roads if they thought they were a Democratic program. No. Politics in the US is thoroughly more broken than you assume here.

We do? One half of the country seems willing to murder the other half.

See, the right in the US puts both of them on the same page and claims they're both hard core leftists. Because nothing so unholy as Hitler could come from the right. As they do with anything else they don't like. "Left" has become a synonym for "bad, evil."

 

What fun is a debate where everybody agrees?

 

Well those threads where you just dominate with example after example aren't that fun either. I suppose for you, humiliating others is fun, but for me as an onlooker it's rather cruel.

 

I agree that the debates on here are often ridiculous. Unfortunately, I think there are many reasons for this.

First, with a two party dominated system, it seems to have turned into a sporting event, with people picking a "team" and then trying to score points for their team and against the other team.

Second, a disinterested population that does not take the time to understand the issues. Even on this board of people who care enough to post on the Internet, there is a huge amount of stupid bantering using simpleton slogans, rather than honest debate. I am fine with disagreement on the issues, but when Obama is blamed for the housing bubble, and other ridiculous illogical "talking points" are spewed irregardless of truth or facts, then how can an informed debate be expected.

 

Ironic how you lump us all into two neat little categories to complain about us lumping ourselves into two neat little categories.

Political forums are a good place for non-Americans to learn about American politics. But only if you don't come here thinking you know it all. Most foreigners don't have a clue how to solve their own problems, much less ours.

 

Well, American politics can seem fierce to outsiders, but other than the Civil War we've avoided shooting at each other.

Our nation is deeply divided nowadays as the left has become more radicalized and the right has become more determined to resist the changes demanded by the left.

There was a time when we all agreed on certain things, like the importance of faith, the importance of family, and the deterimination to make it on our own without asking for a hand-out.

But our moral structure has broken down under assault from the left and we now have millions of people who live immoral lives, without family structure, and live in dependence on government checks and food stamps.

This assault from the left has especially harmed the black race, who bought into the false promises of the left that has brought about their doom to a permanent place on the bottom of society.

 

There is no meaningful leftist activity in the US today. The left died during the Cold War.

It's not the left that's been attacking you. The left hasn't even been a meaningful political force in the US since the 1940s.

 

US political debates are ridiculous because those involved can't even come up with meaningful terms to describe their positions. It's just slogans and rhetoric.

 

Are you talking about the Communists?

There are plenty of Ciommunists in this country.

Only nowadays their favored tactic is to deny they are Communists.

Were you not aware that the President is a Communist?

His disdain for the Constitution should have clued you in.

Just recently he made four recess appointments, even though the Senate is not in recess.

 

There is no left vs right divide.... It is statists vs Statists.

 

It's the other side's fault.

 

Communists, anarchists, social democrats, progressives whatever. Anyone on the left side of the political fence. Yeah, there's a few scattered groups of them that protest at WTO meetings and a little bit at the occupy events, but no serious, credible political force. There's exactly one socialist in Congress, Bernie Sanders, and I would dispute his use of the term.

To say that they're "destroying the country" is insane. It's like saying that a cancer-riddled man is dying from his hangnail.

Not really. You never hear anyone even discuss the abolition of property, state ownership of the means of production, the dictatorship of the proletariat, or any other bedrock communist goals. The total and utter lack of political opposition on the left has made people so hypersensitive they consider basic tools to calm social unrest, like welfare and health care, to be some plot to infiltrate commies in the government. I mean, those are very basic programs necessary to prevent outright revolution in capitalist states. They're certainly not some sort of creeping communism, whereby suddenly the state will own the means of production. It's purely a handout to keep the people calm and keep them spending.

They deny that they're communists... by not seeking any even remotely communist policies, and in fact by supporting traditional state capitalist policies. Yeah, right. That's a level of paranoia that I wouldn't want to approach.

How can you be a communist if you're not promoting communism or even talking about it? That's dumb. You don't build a political movement by keeping quiet about your agenda.

There's tons of political ideologies with reason to hate the Constitution--state capitalists most of all. Obama is a classic state capitalist. He's firmly behind Keynesian economic policy, he promotes minor redistribution of wealth rather than the complete abolition of it, he proposes state subsidies of businesses rather than outright nationalization, he aggressively opposes popular movements abroad, etc. What about him is even remotely communist? He's done literally nothing to advance a communist agenda, despite having plenty of opportunity--indeed, rather than promoting a communist objective, he's just handed big piles of money to privately owned corporations at their request.

That... does not even remotely make a president a communist.

 

To many, the idea of a discussion or debate is more like going to a football game. It's more based on brand loyalty than substance.

 

I once was interested in US politics and enjoyed following it. However, the more I learn and the more I see the polarization of GOP vs. Democrat the more disgusted I become to the point that I no longer wish to even vote.

From my own vantage point, as I see the Democrats vote to go to war in Iraq with "W" at the helm and then turn on him when things go badly and blame him, and then turn around and continue the same war under Obama while watching Obama start a war of his own, and when I see the GOP lambast the Democrats for their fiscal insanity with Obama while doing arguably worse before hand under "W", I am inescapably convinced that there is not really much difference between the two parties.

Since there is no real difference any more, how then can any interest be created for the American people to support either party? It seems to me that the demonization of the other side must then be intentional in order to garnish some support. Otherwise why show up at the polls? If no one showed up to vote it would be akin to a "democracy" that was for the most part illigitimate and without representation. Needless to say, it would be embarrasing to say the least, especially for a nation that arrogantly exports democracy.....er....um....rather forces it down their throats in a Greek vs. Spartan fashion.

So as I see the GOP pass the NDAA that basically gives the US government the right to detain its citizens indefinately without trial and watch a Democrat president sign it into law while basically saying that the GOP forced him into it, all I can do is


Personally, I think its all the Tea Parties fault!!

 

That was a selfless example of meaningless deflection at its finest, Smartmouthwoman. You managed to address NONE of what the OP was talking about by instead taking a stab at foreigners in general without ever using a specific. Congratulations on being a sterling example of what the OP was condemning!

 

Trillion and half dollar deficits is pretty substantial!

 

It's very "us versus them" in America, and the media builds it up that way. The political PR guys probably do as well, viable strategy to try and get people out to vote.

It's a competition, it's a sport, it's community, it's fun.

You pick your "team", and you yell and shout and jeer at the other team. They love it, even if they have no real idea wtf is going on.

It's all slogans, symbols and rhetoric. It's advertising, big business, manipulation, maneuvering.

Of course it's like this in every country to an extent. But it's SUPERSIZED in America.

 

Yep - being raped by "the team" such fun.

 

I don't know if anyone has laid it out yet so here it is:

Democrats in general are socialistic. They tend to argue things like the rich having money is bad thus it needs to be taken and given to the poor. They are also the "we know what's best" crowd and love pushing bans/laws on any behavior they see as bad or risky such as smoking in a bar.

Republicans are authoritarians. They believe the law is morality and thus want their religion reflected in it. They occasionally stand up for individual rights (such as with firearms) but also try to push their religion into places it doesn't belong such as teaching creationism in school.

Both parties hate eachother. Both parties say the other is the problem. Both parties are also going the same general direction with wars, lost rights, and creating massive debt. They have some differences but at the end of the day both are bought and sold by corporations and running this nation off a cliff in an effort to stay in office. People refuse to fix the problem because they believe their party is right and the other is wrong, despite the fact that no major changes happen regardless of who is in charge.

US politics basically comes to pick a horse and ride it to the end while talking sh*t about the other horses around you. That is why our nation is going to implode at some point.

 

Basically it comes down to wealth that divides the parties. The right wing is all about protecting the wealthy, and wealth is what the right represents. The left caters more to the poorer people (at least on some occasion where the right will always favor the wealthy). It's really that simple. You'll have some right wing (southern mostly) republican voters that aren't rich (or at least claim they aren't) that vote right wing. I can only offer that this group votes against their own best interests (probably mostly on the abortion issue). Somehow being against abortion to the point of it being almost criminal, snags the southern and religious vote (they don't usually practice what they preach but pretend that's what they're all about). That and simple ignorance mostly guide their thought process..

Bottom line is right equals great wealth and the protectors of it. It's first and foremost their biggest priority as a party. If you're rich, you vote republican. If you're a religious southerner, you vote republican. That's the right wing's two biggest voting blocks (a few oddballs aside).

The democratic party represents everybody else.

That's basically the breakdown between the two parties, and both are diametrically to the others agenda at almost every turn.

 

The biggest problem with American politics today is that many Americans think more about Party than they do about the country. They are willing to follow what ever their Party says, no matter if it's the right thing to do or not. They will oppose everything the other Party is for. In all my long life, I have never seen it this bad.

 

You dont get it......because it isnt so much Left Vs Right........its The State Vs. The People.

.......and Im betting the same discussions occur wherever your from.....assuming The State hasnt yet consumed your Freedom and Liberty in entirety....which is highly likely.
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I would agree with your last point. Our system only allows for two potential (realistic choices though). One party for the rich religious southerner, and one for everybody else. Money explicitly controls both sides. One says basically, "We're rich...F.U." and the other "We're not as bad as them". That's all. So, you pick a side. If I were rich, it would be republican. I'm realistic though, so I am left with only a democrat and I can also effectively negate a republican vote. That's the system. Rich versus poor. One or the other.