Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Space_Time, Jun 6, 2022.
I have reported your post for the incivility it contains.
Calling Africa a country is gibberish and that is putting it politely. I'm guessing you're an adult. My apologies if you're a kid.
So if this is your way of asking for civil posting you have a very strange way of going about it.
Do as I say and not as I do....lol
Seriously though. A country
The Muslims are in as much by the radical Islamic faction as the Christians are.
And it's not certain at all that this was done by Muslims.
There also the radical "Christian" in NZ that stormed a mosque killing 50 plus he streamed it. This seems like tit for tat by religious fundamentalism.
or just random gang violence.
Nothing in the Christian doctrine of the bible justifies what was done in NZ. While Islamic doctrine of the Koran and Hadiths commands believers to "fight", "kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers
"until...religion should only be for Allah".
Nonsense. The context of killing those infidels is that Muhammed had fled away with his followers to avoid a fight, but they still kept going after him. That was when they were done with turning the cheek and the fight, kill and slay the unbeliever was preached to be just on specific this occasion. It's a right wing Christian/Jewish thing to pick those lines and claim this applies for Muslims on any occasion. While the preaching of self defense is still perfectly alright within the modern norms. And we know that this doesn't happen in any occasion, because there are a billion of them rather very devoted buggers around and the % who is attacking the "infidel" is almost zero.
While we all know the story how Egypt was forced to release the Jews. This was accomplished by, among things, getting innocent children and babies killed through define intervention. This is clearly showing what God supports to it's people. And it got even worse ones the Jews got to the promised land. That's where God supported wiping of the Canaan of the face of the earth in a full fletched genocide where even their animals got murdered. And look at how them buggers are doing now... ethnic cleansing the indigenous population, kill them when they resist, and go forth with that beyond their border. The western Christian world supports this by giving them military aid while not caring it's all against international law that others are demanded to uphold or else. This has been going ever since Jews came in the late 1940's as if they just left Egypt. I can't say they are about to stop their thing as well. You can google their own made polls how many still support ethnic cleansing their Arab neighbor. It aint pretty.
And it's safe to say you recall the "story" of killing babies/children for the sake the Jew gets to commit genocide and thieve the promised land. You just haven't seen that in the perspective of the victim, and realized the insanity.
Nonsense. It states clearly that this is "until... religion should only be for allah". Religion is not yet only for allah.
From the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, the largest political organization in the Muslim world-
"Jihad is an obligation from Allah on every Muslim and cannot be ignored nor evaded.... It is the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its law on all nations and to extend its power to the entire planet."
"We do believe, as Muslims, the East and the West will one day be governed by the Shariah.....Indeed, we believe that one day, the flag of Islam will fly over the White House". Anjem Choudary
And from the shiites-
"We shall not rest until we raise the flag of Islam over the White House.....Today, in every country we look at worldwide, we see that the love of martyrdom is spreading like wildfire every day",; Ali Shirazi, Supreme Leader Ali Khameneis representative on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps
How you and the muslims apologist interpret the koran couldn be more irrelevant. How the Muslims interpret it dictates their understanding.
Right. I claimed and sourced that this had to do with persecution, and crap is typically ripped out of context. And here you are coming up with that utter BS.
That entire line goes: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors
So you obviously cherry picked this from a muslim hate site that you got bookmarked like you got all the other examples from.
And so? Jihad can mean many things, like the concept of having a struggle for self-improvement
And? What does this have to do with the Quran?
There are a dime a dozen Islamophobics in the US as well.
And you don't dispute at all the biblical tales that support killing babies and even genocide.
I took it from the Koran and edited out the "until there is no persecution" to avoid confusing those of you who dont comprehend the meaning of "AND". And yes, one can surrender to Islam and have your life spared.
And I get the quotes from the Koran.
The Koran -- Browse (umich.edu)
Nowhere does it say that Muslims must fight except when the oppressor converted to Islam/ surrender to Islam.
It does specifically says that they must fight until there is no persecution.
And it repeats this in the same sentence with there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
So the Quran doubles down on it, that only the oppressor must be fought until there is no oppressor. Rather dumb to not have picked up on this. You're just inventing crap that supports your own hate agenda.
I see once again you are editing extracts out of the Koran to give a false narrative
Here are the first 25 verses from the Bukhari hadiths followed by the Sunnis. You dont need armor, horses or die from self improvement.
Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:
Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."
Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:
The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause."
Volume 1, Book 10, Number 505:
I asked the Prophet "Which deed is the dearest to Allah?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents" I again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, 'To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's cause."
Volume 2, Book 15, Number 86:
The Prophet said, "No good deeds done on other days are superior to those done on these (first ten days of Dhul Hijja)." Then some companions of the Prophet said, "Not even Jihad?" He replied, "Not even Jihad, except that of a man who does it by putting himself and his property in danger (for Allah's sake) and does not return with any of those things."
Volume 2, Book 24, Number 547:
Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) ordered (a person) to collect Zakat, and that person returned and told him that Ibn Jamil, Khalid bin Al-Walid, and Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib had refused to give Zakat." The Prophet said, "What made Ibn Jamll refuse to give Zakat though he was a poor man, and was made wealthy by Allah and His Apostle ? But you are unfair in asking Zakat from Khalid as he is keeping his armor for Allah's Cause (for Jihad).
Volume 2, Book 26, Number 594:
The Prophet was asked, "Which is the best deed?" He said, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle." He was then asked, "Which is the next (in goodness)?" He said, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."
Volume 3, Book 29, Number 84:
I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shouldn't we participate in Holy battles and Jihad along with you?" He replied, "The best and the most superior Jihad (for women) is Hajj which is accepted by Allah.
Volume 3, Book 31, Number 121:
...So, whoever was amongst the people who used to offer their prayers, will be called from the gate of the prayer; and whoever was amongst the people who used to participate in Jihad, will be called from the gate of Jihad;
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 724:
Allah's Apostle said, "A pious slave gets a double reward." Abu Huraira added: By Him in Whose Hands my soul is but for Jihad (i.e. holy battles),
Volume 4, Book 51, Number 33:
When 'Umar got a piece of land in Khaibar, he came to the Prophet saying, "I have got a piece of land, better than which I have never got. So what do you advise me regarding it?" The Prophet said, "If you wish you can keep it as an endowment to be used for charitable purposes." So, 'Umar gave the land in charity (i.e. as an endowments on the condition that the land would neither be sold nor given as a present, nor bequeathed, (and its yield) would be used for the poor, the kinsmen, the emancipation of slaves, Jihad, and for guests and travelers; and its administrator could eat in a reasonable just manner, and he also could feed his friends without intending to be wealthy by its means."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 41:
I asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the best deed?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is next in goodness?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents." I further asked, what is next in goodness?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause." I did not ask Allah's Apostle anymore and if I had asked him more, he would have told me more.
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 42:
Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Hijra (i.e. migration) (from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but Jihad and good intention remain; and if you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately.
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 43:
(That she said), "O Allah's Apostle! We consider Jihad as the best deed. Should we not fight in Allah's Cause?" He said, "The best Jihad (for women) is Hajj-Mabrur (i.e. Hajj which is done according to the Prophet's tradition and is accepted by Allah)."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 44:
A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 56:
,,,Later on it happened that she went out in the company of her husband 'Ubada bin As-Samit who went for Jihad and it was the first time the Muslims undertook a naval expedition led by Mu awiya.
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 79:
On the day of the Conquest (of Mecca) the Prophet said, "There is no emigration after the Conquest but Jihad and intentions. When you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately." (See Hadith No. 42)
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 81:
In the life-time of the Prophet, Abu Talha did not fast because of the Jihad, but after the Prophet died I never saw him without fasting except on 'Id-ul-Fitr and 'Id-ul-Aclha.
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 85:
....He told us that Zaid bin Thabit had told him that Allah's Apostle had dictated to him the Divine Verse:
"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives.' (4.95)
Zaid said, "Ibn-Maktum came to the Prophet while he was dictating to me that very Verse. On that Ibn Um Maktum said, "O Allah's Apostle! If I had power, I would surely take part in Jihad."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 87:
Allah's Apostle went towards the Khandaq (i.e. Trench) and saw the Emigrants and the Ansar digging in a very cold morning as they did not have slaves to do that for them. When he noticed their fatigue and hunger he said, "O Allah! The real life is that of the Here-after, (so please) forgive the Ansar and the Emigrants." In its reply the Emigrants and the Ansar said, "We are those who have given a pledge of allegiance to Muhammad that we will carry on Jihad as long as we live."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 88:
The Emigrants and the Ansar started digging the trench around Medina carrying the earth on their backs and saying, "We are those who have given a pledge of allegiance to Muhammad that we will I carry on Jihad as long as we live."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 104:
The Prophet said, "Good will remain (as a permanent quality) in the foreheads of horses (for Jihad) till the Day of Resurrection, for they bring about either a reward (in the Hereafter) or booty (in this world."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 112:
The one for whom they are a source of reward, is he who keeps a horse for Allah's Cause (i.e. Jihad)
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
Christians have the new testament.
15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.(*)
6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
2 Corinthians 3
13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
Galatians 3 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law
I am anti-religion as I think it is all false man made beliefs, but I don't see anywhere in the bible where it clearly states to attack or kill non-believers like in the Quran.
Right, Dixon. You put up a couple of quotes from the Quran.
I showed among things to you how you dishonestly left out where the Quran doubles down that the violence is not aimed at the general public, but only to those who oppress Muslims.
And instead that you concede that you made everything up, raped whatever totally out of context, deliberately.... you ignore all your previous claims and quickly move the bandwagon to no less then 25 new cherry picked sentences with absolutely no context. lol
So first of all: you must have picked these from a hate site.
And secondly: you go put in the context.
So what. I said it before, and I say it again.
Almost all Christians know and believe in the story of Mozes leaving Egypt, "thanks" to Jew God killing innocent babies. And then the Jews committed genocide to get their hands on to the promised land, with blessing of their God. And these massacres are all is found to be justified by your random Christian and Jews.
And I add. You're not disputing this. You do exactly the same as in the other post. Just ignore and move the bandwagon.
I am an atheist myself, and that was my point. Christian doctrine doesnt concern itself with the form of government or laws to be applied. "My kingdom is not of this world" and "render unto Ceasar, that which is Ceasar's" and all of that. In contrast to Islam that both dictates the form of government, law to be applied and commands the believers to "fight", "kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers "until... religion should only be for allah".
"Islam is not merely a belief, so that it is enough merely to preach it. Islam, which is a way of life, takes practical steps to organize a movement for freeing man. Other societies do not give it any opportunity to organize its followers according to its own method, and hence it is the duty of Islam to annihilate all such systems, as they are obstacles in the way of universal freedom. ...
This religion is really a universal declaration of the freedom of man from servitude to other men and from servitude to his own desires, which is also a form of human servitude; it is a declaration that sovereignty belongs to God alone and that He is the Lord of all the worlds. It means a challenge to all kinds and forms of systems which are based on the concept of the sovereignty of man; in other words, where man has usurped the Divine attribute." Qutb
"Their fascination was arisen after the defenders of democracy and the
defenders of other such false ideologies (who have no religion) defended democracy simply for the sake of it, and they mixed the falsehood with the Truth.
..... They distort the Truth with Falsehood, and mix the Light with the Darkness, and the Polytheism of democracy with the Monotheism of Islam. But we, with the help of Allah, replied to all of these fallacies, and showed that democracy is a religion. But it is not Allahs religion. It is not the religion of monotheism, and its parliamentary councils are just places of polytheism, and safe havens for paganistic beliefs. All of these must be avoided to achieve monotheism, which is Allahs right upon His servants. We must destroy those who follow democracy, and we must take their followers as enemies - hate them and wage a great Jihad against them.
Abu Muhammad 'Aasim al-Maqdisi
God killing as opposed to commanding the followers to kill. And god commanded the jews to kill to establish Israel, but then he expelled them from Israel and commanded them to instead be good citizens of the nations they were expelled to. Stories of violence in the past dont pose problems for today.
Islamic doctrine led to Islamic Caliphates ruling much of the Islamic world from 632 until 1928. The last 90 years is the exception and Islamic Caliphates applying Islamic doctrine as law is the norm. The last 90 years has been the exception.
I'm not seeing you disputing the religion justifies the murder of innocent babies, and a genocide of innocent civilians. And hard core Jews use this to claim Israel is theirs and not Arabs. This lead to ethnic cleansing +700,000 civilians. This also lead to Israeli Jews crossing the border and colonizing occupied territory. These war crimes fuel one of the most long lasting wars that currently are around, and why Israel is the most condemned nation on the planet.
So what that they incorporated their religion into law. The conquest of them was almost always a non religious thing. One in ten Syrians is still Christian. It's 1 in 3 in Lebanon at least. This shows that Muslims do not care at all about it. While Christians went converting through violence like crazy. That caused Jews -among people- to flee to the Islamic world. The Ottoman empire employed them and had no problem giving them the highest positions. Something that didn't happen in the Christian world. While we all know why the Pilgrim fathers went to the US. Religious persecution among Christians ended only 200 years ago in France. The Protestants in Northern Ireland still march around being proud they defeated the Catholics. They are called the Orange marches,... after the Royal house from The Netherlands who they temporary imported to win them that war.
The religion justified god killing babies. The Christian god hasnt repeated since.... or cant remember was killing everyone except Noah's family before or after that? Anyway, not since old testament times. Has no impact upon my life today unlike this worldwide campaign of Islamic terrorism to re establish the Caliphate we see today.
Jews dont use the Christian doctrine of the bible to justify anything. And Im lacking in knowledge of Jewish doctrine but Ive heard reasonable arguments from Jews that taking Israel by force is in direct contradiction of Jewish doctrine that expelled them from Israel as punishment and their prophesized return to Israel WHEN their messiah comes. Taking Israel by force before god sends their messiah is a violation of their doctrine.
And I dont recall anyone using Jewish doctrine to justify their possession of Israel and they instead use that history as evidence of their historical presence in Israel.
Half that IN Syria. US has more christian Syrians than Syria does.
Because the doctrine also says
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority, and they are in a state of subjection.
Christians are "those who have been given the Book". If they properly assume their "state of subjection" and pay the muslims the tax, the Muslims are supposed to leave them be. Muslims frequently have problems following that rule
Within 80 years of Mohamads death in 632, Muslims were waging violent jihad as far as Spain to the west and Afghanistan to the east, to expand the Islamic Caliphate as dictated by Islamic doctrine. In contrast with Christianity that spread for 300 years following Jesus death, completey surrounding the Med sea, spreading by nothing more than the word of mouth as instructed by biblical doctrine, violently opposed by the governing authorities every step of the way.
AND THEN, the Roman empire globbed onto Christianity for their own use, and Christian doctrine was substituted with Catholic doctrine justifying what ever the catholic church wanted. Bibles were written in Latin. The people didnt read their own language let alone Latin. Christian doctrine was whatever the Catholic clergy said was doctrine. Invention of the printing press, the spread of literacy of the people, widespread translation and publication of the bible and the people used the doctrine of the bible to demonstrate the illegitimacy of that catholic doctrine in the protestant reformation. Here in the US Patrick Henry used the doctrine of the bible in his pamphlet "Common Sense", that sparked our revolution to demonstrate the illegitimacy of the divine rule of monarchs and the legitimacy of government of, by and for the people. I dont blame Christianity for the inventions of the Catholic church, I blame the Catholics
Separate names with a comma.