10% of the population has an IQ lower than 83, what this means

Discussion in 'Education' started by kazenatsu, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    How about starting with your we can refuse to be crappy parents. and go from there; there is no such thing as 'refuse crappy parents' so how about some reality in your comments?
     
  2. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    So, young adults cannot choose NOT to be crappy parents? They must BE crappy parents?

    I'm sorry, but you're still not making any sense.
     
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I don't wish to discuss things that don't deal with reality...if you have some ideas that are solid solutions then provide them. Discussing the quality of parents is meaningless since you have ZERO control...
     
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  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, we all have full control over parenting. Each of us makes the decision to do it properly, or not.

    And by the way, how is anyone supposed to reach an informed decision (to parent properly), if we refuse to discuss it publicly? Pretending it has nothing to do with parents, has never helped a single child. It's patently about protecting adult egos.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    If you don't understand that YOU don't have any control over ME and OTHERS then it is obvious that YOU cannot expect ME and OTHERS to do as you wish...talk about solid solutions instead of biased diatribe...
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    When did I say it was about controlling others? You're making stuff up now.
     
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    You said "On the contrary, we all have full control over parenting."

    WE do not have control of others! WE only have control of WE!

    And determining a good from bad parent is 99% subjective relative to each observer.

    There is NOTHING you can do to control others so why continue your diatribe?
     
  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, of course we can control parenting. We just have to decide we'll be decent parents, and then do it! If you're quibbling in order to extract yourself from error, it's not working.

    And on the contrary, it's very easy to determine a good parent from a bad parent .. just look at the child. The child is the record of the parents' sin or virtue. The child is the ONLY measure of parenting.

    And also on the contrary .. it's not at all subjective. There are few people on planet earth who would disagree that a child has turned out well if they reach adulthood honest, kind, responsible, stable, hard-working, and clean living.
     
  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    There is NOTHING you can do to control others so why continue your diatribe?
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    It's not about controlling OTHERS, and never was. You went there in an attempt to cover your faux pas, I guess.

    Give it up. You're looking a bit like an old man on fire.
     
  11. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    When a corporation wants to hire a top notch employee, they advertise for the maximum need combination and offer high pay. Then they select from applicants. The high pay offer draws highly qualified applicants.

    Why don't we do that with teachers? In every state, teachers on average earn less than other college graduates. See graph 8.
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Every teacher has an administration behind them...a process that solicits and chooses and compensates teachers. Your example is apples and oranges since you talk about hiring 'a' top notch employee then ask why we don't do this with teacher(s)? In many cases, why would the best teachers wish to work in crappy school systems? Why would a great teacher accept a job in a failing school? If you wish to hire the best and brightest then you must place them in an environment in which they can excel. We are a long way from this...
     
  13. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    If we did as I suggested we could MAKE great environments by eliminating teachers that don't measure up. But of course you would have to get the teachers' unions on board.
     
  14. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    What can a good teacher do if the student ,okay not saying they are bad, but are so dumb that army during a war has no use for them even carrying a rifle shooting people in the old school infantry role? They had these people in Vietnam to fill quotas and were a nightmare unless a commanding officer found simple work for them that they could focus on over and over which was a real case a low IQ soldier was put into work cleaning a medical area and after lots of training did it so well it freed up other workers to do other work but many were simply killed or did stupid mistakes like shooting an officer in the dark by accident.

    Noting to work at McDonalds one needs an IQ of around 100 the same a patrol officer of the law needs as basic jobs the same source as the professor in the original post elsewhere on Youtube.

    So an 85 IQ is pretty damn limiting to digging ditches, cutting wood and other basic repetitive jobs needing no technical skills and can be simple work jobs which in our society are dead.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because they love the kids they teach wherever they teach them.

    Whist in business, I never met any Executive of a private business who "loved his clients". They just were looking for the profits that paid their salaries and bonuses.

    Enough of the "best and brightest", because what we are graduating are the "most stoopid". More than 70 percent of a all delinquents incarcerated in US prisons do not even have a High School diploma.

    You are employing a logic that applies to a business-concept and not teaching, which is an "art" ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Wages are not the solution to improved education...maybe 5%...all the work that needs to be done is in the other 95%...
     
  17. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Education is a business concept...teaching students is both art and science and psychology. In order for teachers to excel, and students to excel, WE need to create better facilities and design an education system that works for all levels of kids...
     
  18. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. We need talented (and therefore well-paid) teachers to produce better average scores in reading and math for starters. Part of the problem, from what I've seen, continues to be excessive class size and poor incentives for parents to get involved.

    So exactly what is the nature of the "work" that makes up 95% in your view?
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    You say you disagree then say "Part of the problem, from what I've seen, continues to be excessive class size and poor incentives for parents to get involved"...these are some of the 95% and unless you can fix them paying higher wages won't help...
     
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    They're certainly part of the problem, but teachers' pay is much bigger, I believe. But it all should be addressed. And the real issue is the cause behind this whole problem. That's what needs to be discussed because without addressing the underlying cause, we would be putting a temporary bandage on it. Do you agree?
     
  21. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Wages are not a positive motivator because so many other variables are important and/or critical in the workplace. I'm not saying we can't obtain better teachers...I'm saying if we truly wish to do this, and provide the highest compensation, then before doing this we need to make sure ALL of the tools are in place. And here's a big fact; NO ONE seems to be able to clearly and concisely state the goals and mission of a public education system! Fact is if we don't know our goals then we can't design the system which means wages are unimportant. Sadly, IMO, the public education system is like most other things in life...it is poorly constructed, not maintained, not evolving, too costly, and more of a Band-aid solution...we have lots of Band-aids in our government and society...
     
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  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    We have talented teachers. Unfortunately we have some pretty terrible parents.

    As for incentives ... surely the future financial security and welfare of one's child is sufficient incentive? What kind of parent looks at that question and decides "nah, too much work. it'll take the ease and fun out of my life"? A pretty terrible parent, as per above.
     
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  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Public education is none of those things. It's exactly as good as the demographic which benefits from it. Take a hundred kids from a hundred different families, from a variety of demographics, and put them in the same average public high school. Some will excel, and others will fail dismally. This is the reality of education.

    It has almost NOTHING to do with the school.
     
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  24. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Okay since this off track lets be honest for most students they get a decent education considering the issues of a large diverse society they tend to be literate and can be employed with some more education at this point school or apprenticing or learning on the job. It's the very smart are often screwed and the very dumb but what good is the best teacher when dealing with people we are supposed to be discussing on the bottom? Seriously can you magically educate someone with an IQ of 83 to 100 the norm to do many jobs. In the future that will likely go up in demand as automation and AI take over to even a higher IQ. Maybe in the future implants or something might bump native IQ say 20 points but not now.
     
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would implants really be all that less questionably ethical than eugenics?
    (kind of a side issue)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018

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